UofM or WSU ABSN'ers: How did you get in??

RNpatterson · Mar 23, 2010

If you follow the large UofM thread then you've probably already seen my stats - I posted them for people such as yourself. But here you go anyway... :)

*I did my pre-reqs at Washtenaw Community College.

*I did not have my pre-reqs finished when I applied. I was in the process of taking Organic Biochem and I also still had Pharmacology and a Communications course left to take (and I am completing those this semester).

*My undergrad GPA was a 3.1 and my pre-req GPA is a 3.96

*I volunteered at a clinic for 18 months and I was a caregiver for my mother for about eight years until she died from cancer - that made my CNA class a breeze!

*It's likely that everyone who gets accepted will have a 3.(something), have at least volunteer experience, and most will have taken a CNA course to pad the resume. Go above and beyond that. For me, I also took non-credit courses like Phlebotomy (I highly recommend!) and a handful of online non-credit classes that taught about HIPAA, Natural health and healing, weight management, alternative medicine, yoga, CPR/First-Aid etc. I also started study groups in my classes and started tutoring students in the pre-req courses. Once I busted my ass for a year and a half doing all of this, I wasn't about to rush my application and blow it. I started it in August and didn't finish until December and it was the essays that took so long.

When you work on your essays, stay away from sob stories. It's good to mention them if you can focus on how you grew from those hard experiences and how it pertains to your passion for nursing. Write your essays, leave them, come back to them, send them to every professional you know and get feedback, and make sure they flow! I know someone who mentioned a desire for teaching in one essay and then talked about a completely different career path in the very next essay. Details like that matter and you won't catch those if you don't leave your essays and return to them later.

AND ABOVE ALL, HAVE CONFIDENCE! If you stress about everyone being better than you, then they will be. I have never gotten the highest grade on a test but I've always been in the top ten and in the evenings when most people are watching TV, I was on the internet looking up classes, nursing research, scholarships, career information, non-credit classes, WHATEVER would give me the edge up on anyone else who applied. By the time I actually applied, I had far more available to tell them about than I had space to do so, so there was much that wasn't even mentioned, or it was just a quick "blip" in my resume. Basically, find your mojo. For me, it was my mom. She died concerned that she wasn't finished raising me so I live each day to make her proud. Whether it's your kids, your husband, your independence, there's SOMETHING out there that has to motivate you when you don't feel like going the extra mile and every time you skip going the extra mile, there is someone out there who is doing it and they then have the edge up on you come application time. Don't stress about the competition. BE the competition.

I don't mean to go all Tony Robbins on you (and drone on and on) but there is no clear-cut path into an ABSN program. If you live passionately each minute of every day, you'll find it's incredibly exhausting, but you'll get where you need to be. That's the ultimate point that I'm trying to make. Get good grades. Have volunteer or work experience. Take advantage of EVERY opportunity even if you don't know how it will help you. Write essays that actually answer the questions they're asking and make sure your essays flow well. Go the extra mile every chance you get. And passion is what is going to see you through.

RNpatterson · Mar 23, 2010

I always end up writing novels. lol sorry 'bout that.

RNpatterson · Mar 26, 2010

I hope others reply to this thread. There are a thousand things that can be done to get into a program and I really hope to hear some other stories.

espo44 · Mar 26, 2010

I REALLY appreciate all the info you provided! Your response had made me feel very motivated. I think I'm going to do the CNA course offered at the Red Cross. There's a "basic" CNA course that 90 hours and then an "Advanced" one that teaches things like EKG, Phlebotomy, etc and that course is another 120 hours. The 2 classes together cost about $2,000 but that doesn't bother me. I'm trying to decide if I should leave my job at a corporation (making pretty good money) and get a CNA job while I take the rest of the pre-reqs. Do you think this would be helpful? I really don't know if UofM or WSU would look favorably upon that or not.

Again, THANKS for all this info and for the pep talk. You are awesome!!

RNpatterson · Mar 26, 2010

Awww.... thanks! You DEFINITELY need to take that advanced CNA course and be sure to point out on your resume or in your application that it is more involved than the "typical" CNA course. And I'm sure you know this having been in the corporate world... but start your resume NOW for the nursing application and keep up with it. I almost submitted my application without putting down that I took that phlebotomy class! Yikes! All that time and money spent and knowledge gained and I almost didn't even tell the school about it! And it's always nice to add something to the resume that makes you shine - before you know it, you start believing that you deserve a spot in that program! :) But never lose momentum until you get that acceptance.

What is your first choice in schools? Pick one and make that your main goal, and keep all the other schools on the back-burner (and don't forget EMU. They have an ABSN program, too). If WSU is your first choice, I have to admit, my knowledge on what they're looking for is limited; but all I've heard is that it's REALLY hard to get in if you haven't taken some pre-reqs at WSU. As for UofM... I think they'd be satisfied with some volunteer work because what they look for is leadership more than experience. Is there something health-related that you can incorporate into your corporate job? Like starting a group lunch-time walking session and making healthier snacks available? Can you talk any of the execs into hiring a massage therapist or a yoga instructor to keep on staff a couple days per week? It will keep their employees healthy and more focused... Anything that drives production is a businessman's dream. Be creative! Get a self-start health-related program going that you get to call your own and make it happen. IM me if want and we can talk about ideas. UofM understands the program is called SECOND CAREER - they named it that for a reason. Many people don't have the luxury to take off work until they start the program and they know that.

For me, working as a CNA wouldn't have helped much since I was a caregiver for my mom. They know that entails CNA-type work and they also know having stage-4 cancer is going to lead to a lot of time spent in a hospital... so working as a CNA or volunteering in a hospital would be like dancing the same dance. It was important for me to broaden my horizons and I did- through tutoring and the volunteering at the non-profit clinic.

If you have ZERO experience in health care, then you might consider attempting the CNA job if that's what you want your experience to be in; but in my eyes, everyone does that and it won't make you stand out much. If you can do that AND some kind of self-start program, then that's your best bet. You need experience but I wouldn't say you need the type of experience that requires you to leave a well-paying job. What's REALLY going to impress them (more than leaving a well-paying job to do CNA work) is you taking the skills you've learned from your current career and showing them what you can do with it in terms of promoting health (and gaining leadership skills) and then you can explain what you'll do with your knowledge and experience once you're a nurse in your application.

RNpatterson · Mar 26, 2010

And it looks like that's another chapter I can add to my book... lol The bottom line is you want to do all the research you can so you know what is out there. Then you need to look at your interests, goals, and availability to see what suits you and covers what your school-of-interest is looking for in an applicant. Than you want to ask yourself "what more can I do?" and if you're torn on what to do and what not to do, then ask yourself "How will this make me look on paper? Will I stand out in the right ways? If I don't get accepted, will I look back and kick myself for not doing ____________?" If the answer to that last one is yes, then you need to do it! You want no regrets when you turn in your app and that's the only way you can say "they're stupid not to take me." Because it will be true.

ejcl68 · Mar 26, 2010

Hi Espo, sounds like you got some great info from musicians wife. I will add that I took the CNA course through the American Red Cross and loved it. You will spend a week in a clinicals (nursing home) which is great experience. It will also give you some idea if this is the kind of work you want to get into. I saw some people just messing around and not being serious at all - I hope they do not become nurses let alone CNAs. Also, you had mentioned the higher level CNA training which is patient care technician training(also offered at Red Cross). The only way to take this class is by getting your CNA training completed first. You cannot take the higher training before doing so. I know several people who did this and liked the PCT class. My suggestion would be do get the CNA and then take phlebotomy, etc. separate. It will likely save money as well.

I know quite a bit about Wayne State. My undergrad is from there and I applied to the nursing program for Fall 2010. I will tell you that it's one of the hardest programs to get into in the state. They have an outstanding nursing program and one of the very highest NCLEX pass rates. Also, unlike some other programs, your clinical experience will set you apart from other nurses. They really let you do a lot and do not hold your hand - so you will come out very knowledgeable. I am sure other programs are very good as well but I hear some do more hand holding and don't allow you to work as independently. My sister got her BSN and CRNA from Wayne.

Now as to what Wayne is looking for:

They look strictly at GPA(based on nursing pre-req and science). The top 48 get in out of 300 or so applicants. There is priority to how they rank applicants. You can find all of this on their website. But high priority goes to those who take all nursing pre-reqs there followed by those who take all the science courses there. Also, if you have a 3.5 or above in all pre-reqs and you take them at Wayne, you have the highest chance of getting in. Wayne also started to do interviews last year but bottom line is the grades. They don't even look at goal statements, resumes, CNA experience, etc - so I was told when I emailed advising. These may come into play if you are tied with someone which is unlikely due to the number of qualified applicants. My suggestion to you is to do all your pre-reqs there if possible. Also, I have heard they really look down on any course repeats. They told us that they have not accepted any students with repeats the past two years. I have heard the average incoming GPA has been 3.6 - 3.8. I would definitely not put all my eggs in Wayne's basket - not that you are, but understand that it's very difficult to get in unless you are Group 1. I know a friend of mine who had a 3.9 and hospital experience not get in. Her course work was mainly at community colleges.

Like Musicians wife said, keep your options open. Apply to as many programs as you can. Don't be surprised if you get a rejection or two before you get in. It's partly luck involved and not just grades. I would suggest looking into Oakland University who has 3 classes per year (or 150 total). I have read great comments about their ABSN. ogram. I know of a person in EMU's 20 month program who really likes it so far. University of Detroit Mercy - I hear its easier to get into because of the cost (50 K) so that could be a good option. U of M: I like their admission policy since they look at a bunch of stuff. They look at the overall candidate not just if someone is smart or not. Will they make good nurses?? Not just if they are 4.0 students. Most profs I have talked to say they would rather have balanced 3.5 students vs. ones who just keep their noses in the books.

In closing, good luck to you. If you're like me, you realize its a formidable task to get into a nursing program (akin to Medical school). Its crazy to be honest. What I have found is it can be very frustrating and at times, you will feel there is no rhyme or reason to how schools make their decisions.

espo44 · Mar 26, 2010

ejcl68, can i ask, have you been accepted to a program? how exciting!!

thank you for all this info. it's SO much to think about, but this is absolutely what i want to do. and WOW, your sister got her CRNA from Wayne? i hear that is incredibly hard. major kudos to her. !!

ejcl68 · Mar 26, 2010

Not yet - I have submitted all of my documents and am waiting on a decision. I won't know until mid-June or so. I hear they may be doing interviews in the Spring but haven't been notified yet. I guess I am a 'mini-expert' on their program based on what my sister has told me and the research I have done, talking to others, etc.

I honestly don't know about my chances at Wayne so I decided to apply to 3 other programs. I too know that this is what I want so I am willing to go wherever. I just hope my grades are good enough. I have a 3.7 cumulative since returning back to school but I am finding many others have this or higher. It's just so darned competitive - many people are going into nursing because of the so-called guaranteed job(not so sure about that now). Hopefully people truly want to become great nurses and not so much because it's the thing to do. Good luck to you.

ejcl68 · Mar 26, 2010

Espo,

I read a few of the things musicians wife said and I will only disagree with one thing in particular regarding the CNA. I know many people in nursing programs now or are planning on starting programs and only a few of them got their CNA. I would highly, highly suggest you get some experience under your belt which will enhance your application. I recently interviewed at a nursing school and before we even started, I handed them my Red Cross CNA certificate and it was a great ice breaker. They were impressed. If you get your CNA, it shows the nursing school you mean business. It take sacrifice to get the CNA and work in a hospital or nursing home. But you only have to work 1 day a week.. Alternatively, you can always volunteer at a local hospital which I did for the past year. The point I am trying to make is many applicants will have very high GPA's. You need to stand out by doing stuff like volunteering, taking the CNA, working in a nursing home, etc. Wayne State doesn't care about this stuff but schools like U of M, Oakland, EMU, etc do look at it. As a matter of fact, I believe U of M does a 3 week CNA type class before you start the program. I have talked to nurses who tell me that the skills you learn as a CNA are used early on in nursing schools - so why not get ahead?? I say this strongly because many people disregard CNA's as just feeding patients and doing beds. Far from it: you do vitals, help with ADL's, take call lights, transfer, bed pans, assist nurses, etc. It's awesome experience and you can work 1-2 days a week. Trust me on this one.

RNpatterson · Mar 26, 2010

ejcl -

I just want to clarify... I never said not to get a CNA. Taking the class is like an unwritten pre-req... Anyone would be hindering their application if they didn't take the class; but to take the test to get certified and then quit a well-paying corporate job to go work as a CNA is not necessary. There are other ways to gain experience and of course, as you stated, this depends on which school we're talking about. That is why I advised picking one school and going for that one, but at the same time not putting all eggs in one basket. I was only speaking in the case of UofM being the top choice. They expect their applicants to have some kind of experience and good grades, but they REALLY look for passion and leadership on top of those. That's the only reason I made the CNA comment. :) And to confirm your suspicion, yes, they do have students go through a CNA-type deal for a couple weeks before the program starts.

I'm sending "acceptance" thoughts your way and kudos to your your sister for getting into that CRNA program! That's amazing! How long has she been a nurse? I'm hoping for an ICU job right when I come out (doubtful now but who knows in 2011) so I can jump into a CRNA program asap (unless of course I fall in love with another department while in clinicals). I'm still open to all possibilities. But I am wondering about what kind of experience your sister had before getting into the program, just in case....