Should Continuing Education for Nurses be mandatory in all states?

Wishinonastar, BSN · Jun 24, 2009

Every place that I have ever worked has inservices all the time. Nurses are constantly bombarded with continuing ed. The only difference is the tracking system. It is not like nurses are out there not learning anything. Some specialties have their own requirements also to keep the specialty certification. I actually think we will get less now since they are required to provide"CEUs". A lot of the free inservices we had before will not happen now that is all about money.

I don't think the 30 every two years is too bad, but for my school nurse certificate it is 180 every five years, and approved providers are very limited which makes it expensive. I am already up to my eyeballs in student loan debt, and I think this is just crazy. They should accept the ones we are required to get for our nursing license, but no, it can't be that simple.

We should just have to get a certificate of attendance, and should be able to keep a simple tracking log which we can copy and submit to the board when we renew our licenses or certificates. They make everything way too complicated. We are adults and we should be able to be trusted and responsible for keeping track of our own continuing ed records.

MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN · Jun 24, 2009

Personally the re-certification that is required by facilities is the same rote stuff and shouldn't be counted for CEU(in my opinion).

There are so many new technologies, new ways of dealing with illness, certifications that make us better at what we do, and college classes towards an advanced degree that there is no excuse to NOT study more. Not for anything do you want an ER nurse who doesn't understand that LR is the fluid of choice for burns? I can honestly say I was recently floored to find out out how many nurses assumed we bolused normal saline. I learned LR in school and from CEN, but even though they are great nurses they didn't have a clue because someone didn't "tell them" instead of them learning on their own.

While many may read as I do, unfortunately the CEU is a way of tracking hours. I agree that we should be able to log it, and some websites allow just that practice. Either way 30 hours is just too few for an RN license.

M

Wishinonastar, BSN · Jun 24, 2009

Personally the re-certification that is required by facilities is the same rote stuff and shouldn't be counted for CEU(in my opinion).
There are so many new technologies, new ways of dealing with illness, certifications that make us better at what we do, and college classes towards an advanced degree that there is no excuse to NOT study more. Not for anything do you want an ER nurse who doesn't understand that LR is the fluid of choice for burns? I can honestly say I was recently floored to find out out how many nurses assumed we bolused normal saline. I learned LR in school and from CEN, but even though they are great nurses they didn't have a clue because someone didn't "tell them" instead of them learning on their own.
While many may read as I do, unfortunately the CEU is a way of tracking hours. I agree that we should be able to log it, and some websites allow just that practice. Either way 30 hours is just too few for an RN license.
M

I am not talking about mandatory inservice, but we constantly get new meds, new equipment, presenters coming in from different organizations, physician inservices, etc. Most of that stuff won't count anymore unless they have board approval to give CEUs, which they pay for. I think 30 hours is doable, but you have to realize that a lot of nurses will not have employer support and will have to do this on their own. You could do more if you had employer support, but we already work long hours with lots of overtime and we have families. We are not like docs who can go to a conference is Florida for 3 days to get CEUs. It is not easy and some areas are far from places that provide such educational opportunity. I just think that there are a lot of variables involved and regulating it will only detract from it in the end.

MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN · Jun 24, 2009

While I understand what you are saying but consider 30 hours over two years. Do CEU really take the time they say they do? For those nurses who do certifications, PALS, ACLS, BLS and ABLS, as well as, specialty like CEN and TNCC earn education hours from these. Some hospital training also provides CEUs, as does actual education in a school. I don't believe 30 hours is a burden and think it should be more. There are free CEUs on many of the nursing websites and Medscape Nurse (free) offers new ones every month.

If nurses are ever to be truly respected they will get over the thought that they learned it all in school. Learning a device is not learning a disease process. Every year our understanding of how things work changes. As another example; sepsis always requires fluid infusion regardless of cardiac status, breathing status, or any of the other normal preclusions to administering fluid. There is nothing worse than hearing an RN whom you respect and you know is a good, experienced nurse argue with the ICU attending and hear that attending state to the young residents that this is why nurses will never be more than they are, they don't understand disease process. UGH! Administering fluids contraindicates all we learn, yet it is required to reduce poor outcomes. The sepsis article in one of the nursing journals that I read came out about two years ago; prior to that I had gone to a seminar including sepsis and poor outcomes. There are nurses today who will argue to death that they will not provide those fluids. These are the sane that do the bare minimum to retain their licenses. Why? No one knows everything!

I read a quote by a physician about medical knowledge and the drastic changes and increases that have occurred over the past 50 years. In this article he pointed out that 50 years ago, a physician could read everything changing about medicine annually; now, a physician couldn't absorb the annual changes in medicine if he read it in a lifetime-much less one year. There are just too many!

As for doctors going on 3 day jaunts, that is over if it is pharmaceutical sponsored, however physicians like nurses do have annual AMA conferences and specialty conferences. Guess what? So do nurses, my professor just returned from an NP conference in Nashville and got a bunch of CEUs for the classes she took.

We can make as many ladders or put up as many fences as we like; however that doesn't change the fact that education and new knowledge is ultimately our responsibility. What would the prudent nurse do? Know the latest techniques and gold standards that apply to patient care. :wink2:

Wishinonastar, BSN · Jun 24, 2009

No, the BLS is not accepted as part of the required CEUs according to state regs. I am not against continuing ed- if I was I would not have spent years and years going back for certificates and degrees. I am against excessive big government regulations. As was said by another poster- the people who care will always care and will make the effort to learn. Those who do not will squeak by and will get nothing out of the "required" CEUs. They will sit in the back, make rude comments, cheat on the post-test, and waste everyone's time. I think it makes us look bad by "forcing" us with regulations. It makes us look unprofessional. It also interferes with my QI efforts becuase no one is interested in learning anymore unless it provides the "required" CEUs.

MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN · Jun 24, 2009

nj requires doctors to complete cultural competency hours as part of their cme, nps and specialty certs also require loads of ceus, i am just not understanding if you are part of the educated why you wouldn't want everyone to be?

personally, i would like to be compensated for my pro-active stance on education and believe all staff that improves knowledge should be acknowledged and lauded for their efforts. in a time of increased litigation and sicker patients we need to be one step ahead of the dummy resident, doctor, nurse, rt, or whomever else is not doing their job. as patient advocates knowledge is power, as nurses it is vital. we are the last line of defense, someone better know what's going on.:wink2:

as for the complacent, and cheaters they need a wake up call and obviously requirements to perform if they can't on their own.

btw there while doing a paper for a nursing government class, found 9.0 free ceu available on dhhs office of minority health on cultural competency. free! also, joint commission is currently evaluating goals for 2011 in it are hospital requirements for cultural competence education-nurses may provide input for the next few weeks at

* http://www.jointcomission.org/standards/fieldreviews/field_ecccpc.

tell them how you feel about government regulation or make the requirements better. at least we have an opportunity to do it.:wink2:

[color=white][color=white]n.org/standards/fieldreviews/field_ecccpc.*[color=white]http://www.jointcomission.org/standards/fieldreviews/field_ecccpc.

Wishinonastar, BSN · Jun 24, 2009

Sure, there are CEUs out there, but many of them are not accepted as approved providers. We would all like to be fairly compensated, but employers do not value education, they value bodies to cover the shift. As long as we are seen as bodies it does not matter what we go through and how many initials are after our names. They provide continuing ed to the aides because it is required to do so, for us it is not. They don't do it so that they have better aides, they do it because they are required to. I hate to tell you this, but it is going to get worse before it gets better. How do I know this? because one of the things I have studied is economics. Look at the global picture. Employers want CHEAP. Even public schools are trying to phase out school nurses and hire uncertified nurses instead. They can pay them less. The only thing we can do as a profession is set our own standards. If we want to move forward we have to phase out LPNs and ADNs. The minimum entry level for practice must be set at a BSN. We are the only ones who can do this. Yes it will be painful, and no this is probably not a good time, but there never will be a good time. That is more urgent than continuing education for practicing nurses to improve our profession.

TiddlDwink · Jul 25, 2009

While the "nos" have some valid arguments, I believe that mandatory CEUs is the only way some nurses will ever look at information generated since their student days.

I know that it is possible to pay your money and then sleep in the back of a conference room all day and pick up your certificate anyway. I know it is possible to copy someone's answers on a journal article test. At the same time, just being in the room or just copying answers at least subjects the lazy uninterested nurse to some information, however negligible.

Many CEUs are free online, and my state offers some free courses online at the Board of Nursing website, so cost isn't really a factor.

What mandatory CEUs have done for me is this: I'm forced to look at new information. What I've done with my CEUs is to look at interesting areas outside my area of practice. I'm a psych nurse right now, so I look at online CEU programs about triage of emergencies, legal nursing, testicular cancer, or immunizations. I will probably never get to work in those areas, but I find them to be fascinating, so I read and study about them for free :wink2: and get CEUs at the same time.

I have a wealth of little bits of information, and can at least talk a few minutes about almost any nursing topic. I voted yes!