Saint Louis University

sorensic, MSN, RN · Mar 21, 2019

Hello,

Short answer from my perspective:

I didn't do the direct-entry MSN, but rather the post-BSN option. I also went to Saint Louis University for my 4-year BSN. As such I cannot really speak to how manageable the course load is. Since I already did all the BSN-RN related coursework, I only had to take the MSN-related curriculum. The MSN-related curriculum for SLU's CNL program allowed me to work full-time with a 2 year completion (I took classes during the first summer).

Regardless I can assure you that SLU offers a high quality education for the region and is frequently highly rated. I'm sure you have already looked up other CNL programs and the pros and cons of direct entry Masters versus BSN.

The faculty at SLU are generally nationally recognized in their areas of expertise, and you shouldn't be disappointed at all with any professional networking opportunities if you are interested in taking your nursing career beyond the bedside and to academia.

You will absolutely graduate as an attractive RN candidate and will likely have a job offer near graduation. Many of the DE students I spoke with were lucky to have firm offers in desirable areas such as ER, ICU, and L&D. The DE CNL students get extra clinical time contributing to their RN hours and as such often have extra exposure to areas that mix academic critical thinking (think: Physiology, Fluid and Electrolyte balance) with direct patient care such as ICU.

Long answer with nuances and personal biases:

Other than a few courses that I took with NP students, I took classes with the direct entry students. The criticisms of direct-entry MSN-CNL programs can be seen here on AllNurses. I think some criticisms are unnecessarily negative, but overall the criticisms have merits.

I can definitely think of some classroom discussions where the few experienced nurses rolled their eyes at some of the questions the DE MSN-CNL students asked since they had little-to-no bedside experience. It is also odd to see nursing students doing projects on masters-level clinical questions and liaising with teams of nurses at larger urban hospitals with very little experiential knowledge. The DE CNL programs could definitely be implemented better ? .

Firstly with SLU, like most other direct entry CNLs, you are looking at a very expensive educational pathway to become an RN with 0 years of experience. Do not expect any management-related or leadership-related roles for at least 3-5 years to be fair to yourself. While you might hear stories about CNL-prepared graduates moving up the clinical ladder quickly (say 1-3 years), this is likely the exception and not the rule.

As long as you enter nursing patient, humble, and don't come across as a brag, all of these great opportunities for advancement will fall into place if you want to go further with your MSN.

Secondly, the CNL is not an APRN role. You should not expect extra money or compensation to show up early in your career. By pursing the MSN-CNL first, you will be equivalent (on paper) to an RN-BSN hire. You will likely start at the same wage and be treated the same. You will not get some magical formula applied as you gain seniority and raises -- they will be based either on your union wage scale (if union) or your performance evaluation/cost of living increases as deemed by the nonunion employer.

For as long as you remain a staff nurse, you will be equal to all other staff nurses (Diploma-trained, ADN, BSN -- doesn't matter).

Thirdly, some people with insecure personalities might be harder on you because they have an axe to grind. As I've been a nurse a bit more than 5 years now, I've experienced it firsthand. It's a shame that some nurses cannot be genuinely happy for others. I think this is really a commentary on others' insecurities. They hate the idea of having an equal who has a masters degree. Oh the stories I could tell you about. Lol at my most recent job a patient care coordinator thought I was "after her job" that she has been in for years just because I had a Masters. I had no interest in her job ? but you gotta love the gossip.

You will find some nurses to judge you or look down on you for choosing to work at the bedside with a masters. Don't let this minority of toxic personalities phase you. Some will claim the CNL is pointless, but they don't understand that this role has sound theory with bright prospects in the long-term. The CNL is hard to define because it is a generalist masters focused on quality and patient safety.

Here is an example: I choose to continue to work at the bedside because I am focused on my professional legacy and future. I'm not apt to leave bedside nursing due to frustrations and chase the money/prestige of a more senior position at the moment. In fact, some of my friends who have gone on to do management and DoN-related jobs regretted it and realized the that 60 to 80 hour workweeks make the extra cash not worth it (because the salary says you only work 40).

I now have enough experience to enter a CNL-related role or a management-related role but I choose not to. The reason why is that I prefer to get a few more years experience working at different type of emergency departments (I've done smaller urban community ER and remote rural ER -- and now I'm finally going to a large 35-ish bed urban ER). It just so happens that, by definition, an experienced ER nurse should have 5-10 years experience in multiple departments before taking that next leap forwards if they want to be an efficacious future leader.

I choose to work there a while, hopefully pursue increased responsibility (charge RN), and then decide from there how I want to use my advanced education. I don't expect any leadership-related positions to be handed to me. I have strongly considered being a university faculty member, but I think there is a huge difference between someone who entered academia shortly after being a staff RN versus someone who worked in multiple staff RN roles with career progression and then becomes an academic. I hope this nuance makes sense.

One of the concepts I'm lamenting is that so many nurses these days are chasing higher education to get away from the bedside and this is worsening the beside for those of us who want to improve it.

The great thing about already having my MSN is that I can pretty much choose where I want to go from here with my experience level and remaining in a staff RN position is entirely my choice. For example, as a SLU-MSN graduate, I can do a post-certificate NP program at any time. Since my MSN-CNL program included the 3P's, I can jump straight in to the clinical focus areas of the NP program.

On a last note, the CNL is very poorly understood. It is intentionally generalist. There is a big debate about the CNL replacing the CNS which I don't want to get into, but generally speaking the CNS role is awesome but unfortunately dying out due to some stupid decisions hospitals made along with economic conditions in the 1990s to early 2000s. There really shouldn't be a rivalry between those educated in the CNS and CNL model. I fully support the CNS and wish it would be revitalized and restored to its proper function. In ideal hospital settings the CNL focuses on the microsystem and is frequently in contact with the CNS who focuses on the hospital or system at large.

There are some hospital positions that are specifically for CNLs and line up with the White Paper well. This includes multiple positions at the Veterans Administration. However, generally speaking, you will find that a CNL who has 3-5 years clinical experience and good references can consider any of the following career paths:

- For direct entry RNs who actually want to do APRN roles, the MSN-RN programs prepare you to enroll in any post-masters certificate program for any of the APRN roles. Criteria will vary by educational institution and some will require you already have an APRN to get the post-grad cert, so you will have to do due-diligence and research.

- An actual CNL position (rare, but not unheard of)
- Nursing leadership roles and nursing management roles
[Even though the CNL is not made for nursing management, your MSN would make you attractive if you want to go down the management route as there is a lot of overlap in theory]

- University and college instruction (clinical or theory)
- Most types of clinical educators (e.g. Diabetic educator, Staff educator)
- Most types of clinical coordinators (e.g. Stroke Coordinator)
- Clinical research (e.g. pharmaceutical industry or university)

There's way more than this, but I think it is great to enter nursing with the MSN behind your belt for sure, and negative people shouldn't persuade you away from the CNL. However, if you are financing it, it sure is an expensive way to enter nursing!