I am a male LPN working at a large hospital in Louisiana.
My question is simple: When are nurses allowed to defend themselves against assault and battery with physical force?
I work on an adolescent behavioral unit. We are supposed to be helping teens with family issues and depression or bipolar disorder...NOT hardcore violent teen criminals or thugs cracked out on crystal meth. In the past year or so, we have been getting more and more of the violent ones.
These patients will sucker-punch staff in the face and then throw their hands up and say "I'm calm now" and nothing is done. Worse, as in today's incident, a patient outright started a fistfight with one of our techs for NO reason, and the tech was FIRED because he fought back. OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! This kid was bashing him in the face while he was pinned on the ground, and the tech was fired for hitting the kid to try and get him off of him.
So we are supposed to take someone who is throwing full-power punches and kicks and subdue them gently in a manner that doesnt hurt the patient?
I happen to be the only male nurse on my unit. We have male techs, but only one of them is actually big enough to take down someone larger than about 150 pounds who is resisting.
My unit depends heavily on me as the only male nurse, AND as someone who has martial arts training in the form of competing on a college-level martial arts team. I am supposed to take a patient who is trying to rip my head off and simply "wrap him up and drag him down".
I want to know what, if any, legal trouble I would be in for using physical force against a patient that is actively trying to seriously injure me.
We've had patients throw chairs at us, jump into the nurse's station and throw staplers at staff, and try and punch us in the face or kick in our knees.
I'm actively looking for a new job, as I feel strongly that I am NOT a punching bag for angry teenagers...and it's only a matter of time before I'm backed into a corner and and forced to defend myself...for which I know I will be fired.
I am a single father, and have a young child to care for. I cannot afford to be permanantly injured or take extended time off work to heal because I'm not "allowed" to protect myself from bodily harm.
In public, we all have the explicit RIGHT to protect ourself from harm. Why does that right not apply to nurses? Is is because that right ceases to exist at the front door of a hospital?
We are actively discouraged from pressing charges. "Makes for bad P.R." is what I was told on one occassion. I don't really care about a hospital's narcissistic need to be adored by the public at large. I have a 4 year-old counting on his daddy to take care of him...and I cannot do that if I am injured because we are not allowed to "fight back".
PEDS ER has 2 cops with tasers. They get these violent patients in, tase them into submission, pump them full of Geodon, then send them over to my unit where the only security is two male techs and myself. That way, when the Geodon wears off, they can try to kick OUR teeth in...except we don't have cops OR tasers.
Sorry for the rant. I'm just another nurse SICK AND TIRED of being assaulted by patients and NOT having the right to open a can of my own to prevent myself from being used as a punching bag.
In case it got lost in my long post: When do nurses have the right to use physical force to stop a patient from punching us?
i too work on a child/adolescent unit. we had a similar situation where a patient struck a nurse so she could get a shot of vitamin T. i asked the nurse if he wanted to call and report an assault. he said yes, i called the cops and then the doctor. the doctor arrived and then the cops showed up. the patient was interviewed and was arrested. management and the doctor were very upset and wanted to write me up because i did not follow policy but....
i think i have them beat.
we are state of texas employees. when you strike a state of texas employee while they are discharging their duty it is an automatic 3rd degree felony. i simply explained that i was obligated by state law to call as i am a state employee and i am required by the whistle blower act to report all crimes to law enforcement. for the facility to enact policies to prevent this is a violation of the whistle blower act. therefore they are breaking the law by attempting to censure me. i pointed this out and they said they were going to check their policy with their lawyers. it has been 5 months and i have not heard a peep from them. i suspect they are keeping quiet because should this be revealed, then any psych patient hitting a staff member could have the police called on them without regard to policy.
are you a state of LA employee. what do your laws say about hitting state of LA who are discharging their duty and what are your obligations to reporting a crime. research this, i found out i was the only one who has researched this and i have the printouts of the laws and policy sitting in a folder waiting for when they try to call me in again.
do i call the cops on all of the patients who assault, of course not. it is dependent on the situation but if i think you can tell the difference between right and wrong. i will call the cops. my staff did not abridge their rights not to be assaulted when they walked through the doors of the hospital. what these hospitals don't understand is that you can't violate employee's rights just because it is hospital policy. my rights are just as valid as the patient's and so are yours.
horus2001
68 Posts
i too work on a child/adolescent unit. we had a similar situation where a patient struck a nurse so she could get a shot of vitamin T. i asked the nurse if he wanted to call and report an assault. he said yes, i called the cops and then the doctor. the doctor arrived and then the cops showed up. the patient was interviewed and was arrested. management and the doctor were very upset and wanted to write me up because i did not follow policy but....
i think i have them beat.
we are state of texas employees. when you strike a state of texas employee while they are discharging their duty it is an automatic 3rd degree felony. i simply explained that i was obligated by state law to call as i am a state employee and i am required by the whistle blower act to report all crimes to law enforcement. for the facility to enact policies to prevent this is a violation of the whistle blower act. therefore they are breaking the law by attempting to censure me. i pointed this out and they said they were going to check their policy with their lawyers. it has been 5 months and i have not heard a peep from them. i suspect they are keeping quiet because should this be revealed, then any psych patient hitting a staff member could have the police called on them without regard to policy.
are you a state of LA employee. what do your laws say about hitting state of LA who are discharging their duty and what are your obligations to reporting a crime. research this, i found out i was the only one who has researched this and i have the printouts of the laws and policy sitting in a folder waiting for when they try to call me in again.
do i call the cops on all of the patients who assault, of course not. it is dependent on the situation but if i think you can tell the difference between right and wrong. i will call the cops. my staff did not abridge their rights not to be assaulted when they walked through the doors of the hospital. what these hospitals don't understand is that you can't violate employee's rights just because it is hospital policy. my rights are just as valid as the patient's and so are yours.