programs to stay away from?

rn29306 · Nov 9, 2004

I don't consider physics, patho, pharm non-anesthesia courses because they are applied directly to anesthesia in my opinion. I do, however, consider Theoretical foundations in nsg theory, professional role development, research in advanced nsg practice, health policy and finance, graduate research project, and Diversity and social issues fluff classes. And if you don't think a theory course in which you are to abstract total BS from nowhere takes a lot of time think again. Not to mention the fact that instructors who teach graduate nursing theory are gungho about theory and like nothing more than to make it difficult for you. I don't think spending 10 or more hours a week on theory is acceptable. Our instructor, of course, doesn't care about anesthesia or our schedules and slashes our grades if we even discuss anything too empirical. There has got to be an easier way to learn theory because I personally don't plan on applying it to my anethesia practice. I know research is required, but does there really have to be two classes. I would rather be spending my time learning and doing difficult, diverse hard cases than learning about diversity and social issues. How many times do we have to beat a dead horse with diversity issues. Maybe a days worth of classes could do that, and not a semester. Sorry, had to vent. Some people just don't understand the amount of time and wasted brain energy goes to classes that really won't be applied in the future.

More elaborate than I.....can someone give me a ahem for this quote?

jewelcutt · Nov 10, 2004

Sorry about venting you guys. There's just a lot of volume to study in anesthesia and some things just frustrate you more than others when they take up a lot of your time.

rn29306 · Nov 10, 2004

I totally agree. I was not making fun of you at all....you just put it better than I ever could. I mean, what is more important here? BS or anesthesia??

Actually, thanks for venting.

rn29306

bwt02 · Nov 12, 2004

Having graduated from an MSN as an FNP and now attending a CRNA program that is a Masters in Anesthesia I can honestly say that the MSN is inferior. The MSA provides and excellent background in basic sciences as opposed to the MSN that has a nursing theory foundation. Learning about nursing theory did not make me a better NP and I honestly feel it will not make me a better CRNA. I am a true advocate for the MS or MSA programs.

sproutsfriend · Nov 12, 2004

Having graduated from an MSN as an FNP and now attending a CRNA program that is a Masters in Anesthesia I can honestly say that the MSN is inferior. The MSA provides and excellent background in basic sciences as opposed to the MSN that has a nursing theory foundation. Learning about nursing theory did not make me a better NP and I honestly feel it will not make me a better CRNA. I am a true advocate for the MS or MSA programs.

Not all MSN programs are as you described (mostly nursing theory). I'm in a CRNA program which is an MSN program and I'd stack the deep science I've received against any MS or MSA program. We've had little to no nursing that I can recall. I've had more molecular/receptor level physiology, pharm, biochem and biophysics than I care to think about. Not to mention grad level neural science. All taught by professors with PhD's in those areas. You may be correct about some MSN programs. My suggestion is for folks to examine the curriculum before entering the program.

Trauma Tom · Nov 12, 2004

While I respect you opinion, I disagree with your conclusion. You seem to base your comparison on your experience as a Nurse Practioner at a nursing school granting a MSN with your experience as a SRNA at a school granting the MSA or MNA. To me you are comparing apples to oranges. I attend a nursing school that grants the MSN to both Nurse Practioner's and CRNA's. While the degrees that we both earn are MSN degrees, the preparation and experience we attain to earn that degree are not comparable in time or amount of work. In our school the FNP's earn 43 hours whereas the CRNA's earn 90 hours (See curriculum below). I do not however, assume that the MSN is superior to the MNA. Rather I think you have to look at the individual school and examine their course curriculum as well as the professors and their qualifications to teach these courses. You also need to look at the clinical sites as well as the clinical instructors and evaluate the type of experience you will receive. Not all MSN's are equal, nor are all MNA's equal. To claim one is superior based upon your experience as a student nurse practitioner, and as a student nurse anesthetist is not valid comparison. Your assumption that CRNA programs taught by nursing schools sacrifice basic sciences in favor of nursing theory is not correct. I have included in my discussion a comparison of the MSN curriculum in my CRNA program with a university down the road that grants a MNA degree with their CRNA program. I have also included a copy of the requirements of our MSN curriculum for the FNP. You can see that FNP's requirements are less than those for the CRNA. Based upon the comparison of the two CRNA programs here I do not believe they support your conclusion that the MNA is superior to the MSN. In fact, two of our professors, one of whom is the director of our program, recently left the university down the road to start our program. Two of our three CRNA professors have their PHD's. All of our science courses are taught by PHD's in their area of specialty. Our pharmacy courses are taught by our school of pharmacy that is comprised of licensed pharmacists who are all PHD's. While I do not feel these criteria make our program superior to all MNA programs, I believe I am safe to assume that we are at least equal to the MNA CRNA program down the road.

MNA or MSA Program

Fall

NA 610 Medical Physiology (5)

NA 620 Anesthesia Pharmacology I (3)

NA 630 Nurse Anesthesia Biochemistry (3)

NA 640 Anesthesia Principles (5)

NA 645 Professional Aspects of Anesthesia (1)

Spring

NA 600 Research Methods and Statistics (4)

NA 601 Gross Anatomy (4)

NA 650 Regional Anesthesia (2)

NA 670 Anesthesia Pathophysiology I (3)

NA 678 Advanced Electrocardiography (3)

May Miniterm

NA 621 Anesthesia Pharmacology II (3)

Summer

NA 660 Obstetrical Anesthesia (1)

NA 671 Anesthesia Pathophysiology II (3 )

NA 672 Clinical Practicum I (8)

Fall

NA 661 Anesthesia for Extremes of Age (2)

NA 673 Clinical Practicum II (10)

NA 680 Anesthesia and Surgical Specialties (3)

Spring

NA 674 Clinical Practicum III (10)

NA 695 Special Topics (3)

NA 698 Graduate Project (2)

Summer

NA 675 Clinical Practicum IV (8)

NA 696 Special Topics (3)

NA 698 Graduate Project (2)

Fall

NA 646 Legal, Quality Assurance, and Professional Issues in Nurse Anesthesia (3)

NA 676 Clinical Practicum V (10)

NA 697 Special Topics (3)

NA 698 Graduate Project (2)

MSN Program CRNA Track

Nurse Anesthesia Core 54

MSNA 523 Statistical Methods 2

MSNA 524 Cultural/Spiritual Aspects of Nursing Practice 2

MSNA 532 Research for Advanced Nursing Practice 3

MSNA 560 Physiology I 3

MSNA 561 Physiology II 3

MSNA 563 Human Anatomy for Anesthesia 3

MSNA 564 Biochemistry 3

MSNA 565 Neuroscience 3

MSNA 570 Professional Aspects of Nurse Anesthesia Practice 1

MSNA 571 Principles of Anesthesia I 3

MSNA 572 Principles of Anesthesia II 3

MSNA 603 Principles of Scientific Thought 1

MSNA 610 Regional Anesthesia 2

MSNA 611 Pharmacology II 2

MSNA 629 Advanced Health Assessment 3

MSNA 633 Pharmacotherapeutics for Advanced Nursing Practice 3

MSNA 672 Anesthesia Techniques 3

MSNA 674 Obstetric Anesthesia 3

MSNA 675 Pediatric Anesthesia 2

MSNA 688 Anesthetic Pharmacology I 3

MSNA 689 Anesthetic Pharmacology II 3

Anesthesia Seminars 10

MSNA 676 Anesthesia Seminar I 1

MSNA 677 Anesthesia Seminar II 1

MSNA 678 Anesthesia Seminar III 1

MSNA 679 Anesthesia Seminar IV 1

MSNA 680 Anesthesia Seminar V 2

MSNA 681 Anesthesia Seminar VI 2

MSNA 682 Anesthesia Seminar VII 2

Clinical Practicums 26

MSNA 690 Clinical Practicum I 2

MSNA 691 Clinical Practicum II 4

MSNA 692 Clinical Practicum III 4

MSNA 693 Clinical Practicum IV 4

MSNA 694 Clinical Practicum V 4

MSNA 695 Clinical Practicum VI 4

MSNA 696 Clinical Practicum VII 4

Total Required Credits 90

MSN Program FNP Track

Master of Science in Nursing: Core Courses

NURS 521 Theoretical Bases for ANP 2

NURS 523 Statistical Methods 2

NURS 524 Cultural/Spiritual Aspects of ANP 2

NURS 526 Health Promotion for ANP 2

NURS 532 Research for ANP 3

NURS 535 Management for ANP 3

Total Required Credits 14

NURS 533 Advanced Physiology and Pathophysiology 3

NURS 633 Pharmacotherapeutics for ANP 3

NURS 641 Advanced Health Assessment 4

NURS 642 Primary Care of Adults I 4

NURS 651 Primary Care of Adults II 5

NURS 652 Primary Care of Children/Pregnant Women 5

NURS 653 Primary Care Practicum 5

Advanced Practice Courses - FNP Track 29

Total Required Credits 43

Having graduated from an MSN as an FNP and now attending a CRNA program that is a Masters in Anesthesia I can honestly say that the MSN is inferior. The MSA provides and excellent background in basic sciences as opposed to the MSN that has a nursing theory foundation. Learning about nursing theory did not make me a better NP and I honestly feel it will not make me a better CRNA. I am a true advocate for the MS or MSA programs.