DrAres

You should post your question in the Nurse Educator specialty thread - this one is the Clinical Nurse Specialist.

CNS programs are organized by patient populations (e.g. adult-gerontology, pediatric) and there are no specific specializations for home health. As someone who owns a home care agency, why do you think CNS education would be helpful for the agency? I definitely see how the FNP education would not be a good fit. CNS employment is mostly in hospitals (per the national CNS census) and thus that is where the preceptors are located. You'd need to do your clinical in acute care and that doesn't seem to fit your situation. Have you considered the Leadership or Administration programs?

In California to receive state funding via California Children's Services, the NICU and PICUs must have a CNS. Fortunately, CNSs in CA have been active in influencing these regulations. See the latest effort on page 99 of Neonatology Today when the state decided that the role could be filled by a "Neonatal Educator," NNP, or CNS https://www.neonatologytoday.net/newsletters/nt-mar21.pdf So - if you want to move to sunny CA you can probably get a Neonatal CNS position! I did a research study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29419579/ of CNS students as they transitioned into practice. This study revealed that many grads assumed non-CNS titled positions. Some said they were working as a CNS (without the title) but others gave job titles of: Stroke Coordinator, Geriatric Care Coordinator, Advanced Nurse Clinician, Trauma Coordinator, Clinical Educator, etc.

Yes I have had my PhD loans forgiven via the NFLP. I had a faculty job before taking the loans, so my situation is different than yours. Nurse Educators are in demand but your background and education has to fit with the program needs and type of academic setting. For example, if you want to teach ADN level at a community college and have solid acute care experience, the job search will be fairly easy. I can't determine from your online information if the 1 year experience is as an FNP or as an RN. If the latter, then the search for a faculty position will be very difficult. A new grad DNP-FNP would not be hired to teach FNP students without at least 2 years of FNP experience (full-time). Schools are looking to match your clinical expertise with the courses in their curriculum. Also, the academic positions at BSN or higher programs will likely involve scholarship (research/EBP, presenting at conferences, and publishing). If you have not done this, it may be difficult to be hired. So, my advice is to be sure that you take your DNP project all the way through the dissemination phase and present the work at a conference and work with your faculty to get the project into a journal morificecript to submit.

It takes a lot of courses to elevate the GPA. Most programs that I know of look at the degree GPA and do not consider post-bachelor's courses into that GPA. @jax18_mco Have you looked at the US News & World Report rankings for Best Online Master's in Nursing programs and looked further down the list? Programs 30-50 places down are still great programs. There is a faculty shortage, so depending on the type of academic setting there may be less concern about where your degree is from. You want to be competent in the academic role, so look for a respected regional school as opposed to a national powerhouse. Also, there is nothing wrong with coming into a program on probation. Grab it if the program is a good fit for you. Last, look closely at the clinical preceptorships to be sure you will have enough time and practice to develop educator competencies in order to have a easier transition to the academic role (the workload is hefty).

I'm not sure about the specific history of why the Psych/Mental Health APRNs decided to focus on NP over CNS. There seemed to be a national decision, though controversial, that was made within the specialty. I hope others in this specialty can weigh in on what precisely happened. In terms of the certification exam - there are a number of CNS populations that have no exams (Women's/Gender Health, Family). The key seems to be that the certification exams are a business proposition. They exist to make money. If there are too few people coming out of the educational programs then the certification body can't recoup their expenses to create an exam.

Study.com is the provider of the education but the American Council on Education (ACE) is the body that grants the college credit and provides the transcript (a badge now). I don't know if the BRN will accept the ACE credit or not. That is something you'd need to get a read on from them. If you get an answer, come back and let us know.

Notification of the multiple orientation sessions occurs after the ADN student applies. It's not an information session, rather an orientation to the program, online library, online classroom, etc. We've received 400+ applications this year so it's pretty crazy getting everything processed. Every course has discussion boards and other varied assignments (quizzes, papers, journal entries, PowerPoint presentations). The number and type of assignments are different based on the number of units and subject matter. If this is your first Summer, you won't be taking the Health Assessment courses (2nd Summer students only). By Summer 2022 we will be back to normal and the Lab will be on-campus, live, hands-on!

@Guest123456789 @Jackeeee I'm affiliated with CSUDH and can provide some perspective. I'm sorry there has been trouble communicating with the department - the pandemic has created some issues with phones. The nursing webpage has a link for Faculty/Staff so you can get direct e-mails of the specific people you want to communicate with. The first year as a new graduate is very demanding. Not only will you be in more classes (at the hospital/agency) but you'll also be learning on the job. Working full-time and holding a full-time 12 unit load of online courses is possible, but most students don't do this. If full-time academically, students usually work only part-time. The CSUDH program is structured such that you can vary the number of classes you take. You might want to start out full-time while you're studying for NCLEX and job hunting OR you may already have a good job lined up and then you could enroll part-time (2 courses). The following semester you can adjust up or down. The thing is that online learning takes a lot of time because you need to read and type rather than listen and talk. The online modality is flexible but not quick or easy. Last, you'll want to keep your GPA up to position you well for graduate school later. So, my advice is to go slow and enjoy the journey to really learn at the next level.

@pandaeyes have you attended the orientation session? You questions could be answered there. The Health Assessment Lab is typically done on campus, but due to the pandemic we have been using Zoom. In the Lab student typically practice exam skills (on a clothed human). If you'd like to know more, e-mail the BSN Summer Fast Track Coordinator. The clinical course near the end of the program is Community Health. This includes the public health clinical - an important benefit of this program because to work as a Public Health Nurse, you must obtain a certificate to practice from CA. The course description is: BSN 423 - Community-Based Nursing Role Performance (2 units) Prerequisites: BSN 302, BSN 346, BSN 382, BSN 381, and BSN 422 (BSN 422 may be concurrent enrollment). Provides an opportunity for application of the knowledge and the skills of the community-based nurse in a community setting. Requires 90 hours of clinical practice with a preceptor for the Public Health Nurse Certificate.

By the time you sort this out, quite a bit of time may elapse. You may want to consider taking the Sociology 101 course at Study.com (for college credit). https://study.com/academy/course/sociology-course.html This is not a university, but a education provider. Certain courses are approved for college credit through ACE. The California State University campus I teach at accepts ACE credit and numerous nursing students have taken pre-requiste courses for our program (such as Patho, Statistics). The classes are very reasonable and the extra transcript cost is also low. The course is online and self-paced. While this isn't what you want to hear, it's probably the fastest solution.

I would say the main difference is that the work of the Ped CNS involves care for the patient (direct but mostly indirect via consultation) as a clinical expert, support for nurses, and engagement with the organization. In contrast the Ped Acute Care NP focus is 1:1 direct patient care with billing for that care. The NPs are often employed by the physician medical group. Ped Primary Care NPs work in ambulatory care settings. Take a look at the competencies for each role (posted on the NACNS website and NONPF website) and then interview nurses in both roles to determine what a "day in the life" of that role looks like. Oregon has state laws that make online education there difficult. Application fees are stiff. You may find that online programs are not able to serve you in OR so look at your in-state school options.

Most discussions of exam prep for CNS grads have focused on the Mometrix products. The grads from our program that take the AACN typically are using CCRN prep books (to get the feel for the style of questions), Synergy Model, and Mometrix. I suppose that acute care NP prep tools could be useful as well.

Anay3l1- As a newly admitted student you won't be in clinical for another year, so likely the pressing problems we are experiencing now won't exist. The challenges related to clinical placement are that sites have closed to students. It doesn't matter if the school or the student seeks the placement, if the agency is banning all students. Fortunately, we're seeing sites for FNPs are opening up. All schools that have online programs find it difficult to take full responsibility for placing students in preceptorships. The reality is that these are not local clinical rotations with 8-10 students, they are 1:1 situations that take place all over the state. It is unrealistic for the school to have close relationships with NPs in every community state-wide. That said, we have hundreds of clinical affiliation agreements in place at any given time. We have a collaborative placement process where we work with students to find placement. Ultimately the school will coordinate a placement within 100 miles from the student's residence. However, the preferred situation is for students, who know the local community and the medical practices that they might want to work in the future, to work their contacts and networks in the community to locate a place to precept. Students that are successful in this endeavor are often the first to receive job offers and the students that are more passive take a long time to become employed as an NP.

I'm a graduate of CSUDH but also faculty. I'm not sure when NurseGina17 attended, but there is no math test. There is a graduation writing requirement, which all of the CSU schools have, but it can be done via essay with a proctor. Yes there is a weekend health assessment lab. The clinical courses with preceptors have been reduced to 2 - leadership/management and community health. Preceptors for the leadership are quite easy to find as typically there is a qualified BSN prepared manager in your workplace that could serve as your preceptor. The Community Health involves either a public health nurse or school nurse and that can be more difficult to arrange. I encourage you to look at the curriculum to see what looks most interesting and to consider how courses are delivered and if that suits you.

Adventure_RN, As others have noted, it's great to see that you are doing your homework and due diligence on this matter. I will address multiple issues that have evolved on the thread from the standpoint of being CNS faculty (full disclosure). You say you're not ready to leave the bedside for an advanced practice role. Remember that if you attend graduate school part-time it will take you about 3-4 years to complete an APRN program. If you were to start next year, your feelings about remaining at the bedside may change near the end of your education. It is also possible that the educational journey will continue to feed your affinity for ethics and research and you may be anxious to move into a different role (CNS or other) at the end of your education so that you can spend more time in those areas you love. If you are still feeling like you want to be at the bedside after your education, you can search for part-time CNS positions or I know many CNSs take a per diem position at another hospital to be able to work at the bedside. Another approach is to work at the bedside during crisis and holidays. This is typically well received by staff and as long as you don't have a Union there is often not concern about displacing a staff nurse shift if you volunteer to pick up "undesirable" shifts. AACN does have a retest option that would not require the practice hours. AACN does not address the option of volunteer hours doing APRN work, but ANCC has that option. So that would be something to check into as an alternative to employment in the role or taking the exam. Now that the APRN Consensus Model is in place and the APRN roles and populations are defined, I believe the AACN Neonatal CNS exam will continue. AACN has had exams for critical care Ped and Neonatal for many years and is the only certification organization for Neo CNSs. They updated their exam and qualifications to meet the APRN Consensus Model and I doubt they will discontinue the exam. However, they are a business so it also comes down to whether the exams are profitable or break-even. CNS practice in hospital settings is typically executed within the advanced nursing arena rather than in the medical scope (as NP, CRNA, and CNM practice) - so within the nursing scope. As such, there is not as much legal differentiation of CNS and RN roles. This does make the role more vulnerable. That said, in some hospitals the CNSs do prescribe some meds, treatments, and DME. I can see some application in the NICU - particularly with a focus on discharge needs. Additionally, some follow patient populations into outpatient specialty care (such as the Developmental Clinic that you mention) and CNSs can bill for those outpatient services. Use of the role varies, but it has been supported in Magnet hospitals and in CA the NICUs and PICUs are required to have a CNS in order to receive supplemental state funding for children's health care. So in CA there is a good degree of job security. Education competencies can lead CNS-prepared nurses to other types of positions. I have witnessed promotions within the organization (one of my CNS classmates is now a CNO). Also, a study that I did of CNS transition post-education showed that people did make choices to assume non-CNS jobs for personal reasons and because the CNS positions weren't available in their area. Interestingly, the Ped CNSs were the specialty most employed as a CNS (though they were a small fraction of the sample). See the publication for more detail on some of these issues. Ares, T. L. (2018). Role transition after clinical nurse specialist education. Clinical Nurse Specialist: The International Journal for Advanced Nursing Practice, 32(2), 71-80. doi: 10.1097/NUR.0000000000000357 The university I am affiliated with is in the process of approving a Neonatal CNS MSN and post-master's certificate programs that will be available online. We believe there will be a continuing need for the role. So, you may find the NANN list is able to grow in the future, but I share your concern that programs may also close. It is expensive to run them with so few students enrolled. Last, once you have your MSN degree it is possible to add other specialties (e.g. Ped CNS or Educator) on top by attending a post-master's certificate program. If you find later that your choices are too limited, ongoing formal education can move you into a broader direction. All the best as you sort through these important issues.

The program is mostly online. The Core MSN and 2 APRN Core courses are fully online. The Advanced Health Assessment course requires 2 visits to the campus lab (mid-term and final). The FNP specific courses involved 1-3 on-campus meetings per semester. You should probably attend a graduate Information Session (live online) to learn more.

Take a look at the eligibility criteria for the AACN exam because it is different than ANCC. You may be stuck if you don't meet he criteria. My students were taking the ANCC but when it was retired, they were not eligible for the AACN exam because our curriculum was missing some things that AACN required. Changes in the curriculum were needed (and have been completed), but alumni will not be eligible for the AACN and would need return via the post-graduate certificate process to complete additional coursework.

The test blueprints for each exam are different so I do not believe there is only one exam. Questions that are in essence about the role, advocacy, ethics, etc. but involve a scenario of a different population are likely what you experienced.

The FNP Program Handbook that is posted is for students admitted prior to Fall 2017. The new admission process was posted from Oct. to May but we took it down in June to revise for 2018. You make a good point because now there is vacuum of information. I'll let the team know and perhaps they can move the handbook to a different place while giving a brief overview of the admission process until the new documents are posted. The 2017 application included: Letter of intent for graduate study, resume, short answer responses to specific questions (relating to future goals as FNP, plans for balancing work/family/academic responsibilities, summary of findings from interviewing a local primary care NP), identification of the 4 MSN pre-requisite courses (patho, health assessment with lab, stats, research), unofficial transcripts, and 3 recommendations using forms provided. The university and FNP program applications were due April 1st and decisions were communicated to applicants at the end of May with confirmation of intent to enroll the first week of June. 30 were selected for the Fall 2017 cohort.

I'm interpreting the original post to refer to older nurses that are new grads. As a former hiring manager and current faculty, I will share some thoughts. As others have said, there is a place in nursing for all ages. Managers do have concerns about the investment to bring a new nurse to independent competency in the hired role and how long that nurse may stay (regarless of age). I think older nurses have an opportunity to package themselves in the best light, but I've found some are resistant to this idea. Older new grads can configure their resume to highlight their transferable skills. A resume is not an application and you don't have to list all of a 25 year work history. People are often proud of that history but it can be perceived negatively. Input from others that have been in the field can help a new grad tidy up the resume and in the process mute the ability to determine their age from the resume. Appearances were mentioned earlier and those can definitely be improved. Older nurses can consider their hair color (hide the gray), clothing (dress with some style for a younger appearance), and physical nature. I once initiated a conversation with a student in her mid-50s about her intentions after graduation because she was barely able to walk into my classroom. She felt her I.T. background would make her the perfect candidate for a Nurse Informatics position. I wasn't sure that job was realistic for a new grad, but felt some relief that she wasn't intending to apply for a staff nurse position. For the older nurse, I think it's importanat to convey an energetic nature to the hiring team. Energy = Youthfullness. This can be practiced in the clinical setting (have a sense of urgency even as a student) and for an interview. Entry-level Master's RNs have a particularly difficult time as older new grads, in my opinion. The MSN degree preparation of a new grad is viewed suspiciously by practicing nurses and managers alike. Many believe the older new grad with an MSN is going to go off to do other non-direct care work after a minimal amount of experience is attained. But, Magnet hospitals tend to embrace this type of nurse. These new grads need additional career counseling to strategize their approach. When I get the chance, I advise people with non-nursing bachelor's to do a 2nd degree BSN rather than the ELM because I think they'll have less employment barriers.

syane45 - I suggest you contact the School of Nursing and ask to be connected with the advisor for the Education track. The advisor can likely connect you with a few current students in the program so you can get the student persepctive. This is the approach I used when checking out PhD programs and I feel that I avoided one problem program with the student's insight. In the spirit of full disclosure - I teach at CSUDH. We've had some terrific Nurse Educator students in the past several years that were recruited by ADN programs before graduation. We consistently get feedback from ADN programs in the So Cal area that our graduates are better that those from certain private schools because they come with the knowledge and skills to "hit the ground running." Also of note, some of the private schools have no clinical (student teaching) or minimal hours. Some post-master's applicants have told me that they couldn't get hired as faculty because the ADN program wanted more instructional experience (often classroom management) along with strong clinical skills.

Questions about the student experience are great to post in these forums. Other questions such as admission requirements and insider information such as slectiveness of admissions is best to direct to the Nursing school itself. The origin of the RN-to-BSN program at CSUDH was in the late 1970's as leaders at the state level, health care leaders, and academics came together to develop an innovative program for working nurses to earn a BSN. At the time 12 hour shifts were not common and nurses found it difficult to attend traditional university courses. The Statewide Nursing Program was launched by grant funding and became such a success that it was housed on the CSUDH campus. It has never been traditional, but always met the needs working RNs with a quality program. Graduates of the program are dispersed all over the state working in every type of health care setting. Many have attained higher education including PhDs based on the BSN foundation they received at CSUDH. Some alums are in very prominant positions such as Chief Nursing Officers and members of the Board of Registered Nursing. A school's repuation is hard thing to get a handle on. It mostly invovles perception. The RN-to-BSN program at CSUDH is a non-selective program. Due to the online delivery, there isn't a need to limit the number of students due to space in a classroom. Also, the national expectation is for all RNs to complete their education to the BSN level as a minimum. So what's the point of selectivity once the pre-licensure education has been succefully completed? Bias against online education persists even in the face of a large body of evidence showing there is no significant difference in student outcomes when traditional and alternative education delivery are compared (see the website No Significant Difference). Online degree programs are often chosen by new nurses because they typically don't have any control over their work schedule.

The FNP Program at CSUDH has a new process of admission where the decisions are made at the point of application and an offer of full admission (not conditional) is made. The previous multi-phase admission process had some positive aspects (allowed students with lower GPAs to come in and show that they could learn online, focused coursework on the APRN Core that are required in every NP program) but it also had the negatives that have been discussed in several threads here. For Fall 2017, 30 students were slected and all but one accepted their offer of admission.

LARN2016: You sent me a PM in April but I cannot reply (not enough posts yet to have the privledge). Please contact me via e-mail which is posted on the university's Nursing webpage (CSUDH).