Pondering on Foreign Nurses

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · May 1, 2009

Reading from a few threads on this website I have noticed the growing intimidation on foreign nurses. The issue of hiring overseas nurses to the U.S. seems to be the hottest topic here. Post something with regards to interest on making your way to working to U.S. and you will get a quick response of discouragement, anger, and hopelessness. I have read from the facts that U.S. is currently in need of RN. Though the facts is there are bunches of LVN looking for more shifts to earn more money but sometimes cancelled due to loww pts ratio. Some hospitals are desperately looking overseas to fill in those RN positions due to the reason that first, there are no RN applying and second, some of them are not yet qualified for the urgent position available. From what I have learned this hospitals are just hoping they could get these nurses soon but its not gonna happen due to current retrogression. some are presumptive that newly graduates are the answer to the current needs. Wondered why hospital are still recruiting foreign nurses? In the next 5, 10 years onwards there will be a lot of nurses wanting to retire to enjoy what they have worked for plus some will be shifting to other works, simply because this is not what they really want, people who do it only for money. While some nurses are ventilating their anger and frustration trying their best to intimidate foreign nurses wishing to come to america to pursue nursing, pts on the the other hand are suffering due poor quality of nursing care and in contrast some local nurses are burned out, stressed out and grumpy most of the time due to over work and lack of sleep. Worlwide economy is in financial turmoil and protectionism is one mistake the world currently is trying to deal with to avoid the same thing to happen. This is just on my humble thoughts and opinion. Real Nurses with real needs. With all this said , I live it you. At the end we all are reasponsible to our own action whatever the consequence would be.

I would like to respond to several issues you posted.

I have not seen anger towards IENs coming to the USA, you do have some misconceptions though about American nurses, have you work first hand with them ( having a front side view is different than reading posts).

Where do you think there is a need for RNs? In my area their are no positions. In hospitals, the fall back place of employment for many nurses in a nursing home and there hiring has been scaled down. I have read on the state section of this board that many places in the USA do not have positions either. Nursing is going through hard times now, we are expected to work more while getting paid less and have no job security.

I have not seen any LPN or LVNs picking up the slack. Lpns are not employed in many hospitals. Also as patient I would prefer to have an experience LPN caring for my than an NEW Nurse IEN or domestic RN.

Many domestic nurses are not finding positions. Nursing student enrollment is going up and now we have a surplus of nurses looking for positions. Why would a hospital spend extra money importing IEN when their are lots of US Trained nurses looking for employment, one of the requirements to get employ an IEN is that their are no domestic nurses willing to take the positions.. Can you tell me where these hospitals that are recruiting IENs or is it Agencies saying their are position for nurses, there is a difference.

It also seems there is a variation in Nursing Education, how can a nurse be an instructor in their home country and not be able to pass a competency exam in other countries. Numerous nurses have been told by other countries their education is equal to the Practical Nurse Level. These are not isolated cases. I would also like to seen the BON in the USA complete a competency assessment like other countries similar to Canada and New Zealand.

How would you feel if you worked your heart and soul in your home country, administrators giving unrealistic work loads only to find IEN are complaining about you. Also in nurses can come from the Philippines to work in the USA, don't you think Americans can be extended the same right to obtain a license in your home country? I don't care if you think Americans don't want to work in the Philippines, that is making a judgment call you can't know what every US nurse thinks and I feel it insulting to think we allow IEN to test for a license why I am shut out - this is on principle. In my opinion to be accepted for testing the IENs home country should allow qualified US RNs the same courtesy

I have seen many IENs post here, with statements, like everyone knows we are the best nurses, IENs are kinder than Americans, We have a better work ethic etc, etc, In my opinion that is not very polite for the IEN to post, of course other posters should be post angry posts but like you don't want to be put down, Americans do not like to be put down.

I have see the same attitude from IEN went they have been working in this country complaining about the working conditions after being here years of working.

Thank you for posting this topic, I don't think I have posted any angry or offensive remarks. Best of luck with your career.

.

kempo · May 2, 2009

It's pretty obvious there is anger towards IENs from posts here. No matter how you hide it or how nicely you explain it but it's always there, even in your last post. There's no need to do it. Not all IENs who visit this site wants to work in the US anyway.

ICU MAN · May 2, 2009

Thank you for the quick response. I appreciate your thoughts and perceptions :redbeathe. As I have said, I live it all to you. I am just sharing also my own views. Things that I've said are based on my own assesment. All the best to your carreer too, and to others. Thank you! :wink2:

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · May 2, 2009

It's pretty obvious there is anger towards IENs from posts here. No matter how you hide it or how nicely you explain it but it's always there, even in your last post. There's no need to do it. Not all IENs who visit this site wants to work in the US anyway.

I am not angry. I am trying to speak truthfully, am I happy that nurses can practice in my country and I not allowed to practice in yours, I don't think that is equal and discriminatory and racist since I am not Asian. The only Nations that will only allow me to practice, are Canada, Australia, and England. But my country will allow nurses with similar education to get a license if they have a VISA. Don't you feel we should be treated equally. I am not angry since at this time I have no desire to move but on principle it is wrong.

Over and over again I hear on this board that there is nursing shortage, my first hand observations is that there is no nursing shortage. Many new grads are having a hard time finding jobs. Perhaps in 5 or 10 years there is a need for more nurses but US nursing schools are graduating more and more nurses.

I am sorry if you perceive this as anger, I personally feel one should respect the nurses of the country one wants to immigrate to and that if the US allows a IEN to practice here the US nurse should be able to practice in IEN country.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · May 3, 2009

I think Filipino nurses in particular who hold on to dreams of working in the US should understand that the situation from years back have changed and it's not that easy to work in the US anymore at the current time. It's not that people in this board are trying to discourage you, you are merely being given a dose of reality and you'll have to accept the American way of "telling it like it is" and "never sugar-coating things" to soften the blow. Americans, for the most part, are decent and caring people but they also tend to say what they feel inside. Take their words as a matter of personal opinion, respect it and you'll get respect in return.

I actually feel bad that many of you are not able to realize the dream other nurses who graduated before you have enjoyed. Just hope and pray that patience does pay and hopefully things will change no matter how long it takes. You are actually lucky that you have the internet available at your fingertips to find information about overseas jobs. I never had the luxury when I was starting out and there were a lot of misinformation being spread around Manila at the time. The steps in finding opportunties in the US wasn't as clear or cut and dry for us back then as it is now.

Peace.

ICU MAN · May 3, 2009

"I think Filipino nurses in particular who hold on to dreams of working in the US should understand that the situation from years back have changed and it's not that easy to work in the US anymore at the current time."

I think nurses who are reading this thread should know that whatever negative or any sort of intimidation on foreign nurses written here, does not represents the view of most if not all american nurses.

Not only one group of nurses are aspiring to work in the U.S., there are also other nationalities, I just dont know why a particular group is always being singled out consistently . Sounds familiar.

Americans, for the most part, are decent and caring people but they also tend to say what they feel inside. Take their words as a matter of personal opinion, respect it and you'll get respect in return.

Nobody here is trying to impost in any way or saying americans for the most part are not decent . That is why I believe many likes the american way. My parents are americans and my father was in the U.S. Army, my 3 sisters who are nurses are americans, my cousins, 5 of them are nurses they are all employed are americans, even President Obama is american etc.. Nobody should speaks at expense of all americans.

For centuries, America has been the land of immigrants, the land of the free and the home of the brave. This is one the reason in fact why America became a great nation , Its the contribution of different immigrants. Though there is a current economic problem, this would only be temporary. America has been able to withstand bigger problem than this. And I dont see any reason to refrain to optimism or to feel bad even at this present point of time.

We undertood the matter of your personal opinion and we respect it. Every individual deserve respect hope you also would give it in return as a real decent american.

Peace

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · May 3, 2009

I think nurses who are reading this thread should know that whatever negative or any sort of intimidation on foreign nurses written here, does not represents the view of most if not all american nurses.
Not only one group of nurses are aspiring to work in the U.S., there are also other nationalities, I just dont know why a particular group is always being singled out consistently . Sounds familiar.

The reason why I speak of Filipinos is because I come from the same point of view. I was born and raised in the Philippines, received my BSN from a university in Manila, and started working in the US in the mid-nineties. I am familar with the Filipino culture and lived it for 26 years. I am an American now and have adopted many American traits. I have adjusted to the American culture although I may still have some Filipino traits.

I know that there are other nationalities who want to work in the US as well. What is driving them is probably entirely different than what is driving Filipinos. I can not speak for their aspirations and desires because I did not live the experience they had. Because of that I will stick to referring to Filipino nurses.

I am surprised that Filipinos feel singled out. To me, it's not a matter of being singled out but rather an issue of consistency in the topics being posted in this part of the forum. The fact that many posters in this International Forum originate from the Philippines and they follow a pattern of questions relating to how one can pass the NCLEX and get a US visa just proves that Filipinos are the ones drawing attention towards themselves. I'm sorry but I really feel this, and again, this is my opinion as a Filipino-American. I am even uncomfortable with some of the things that are being posted around here from the Filipino nurses.

Nobody here is trying to impost in any way or saying americans for the most part are not decent . That is why I believe many likes the american way. My parents are americans and my father was in the U.S. Army, my 3 sisters who are nurses are americans, my cousins, 5 of them are nurses they are all employed are americans, even President Obama is american etc.. Nobody should speaks at expense of all americans.
For centuries, America has been the land of immigrants, the land of the free and the home of the brave. This is one the reason in fact why America became a great nation , Its the contribution of different immigrants. Though there is a current economic problem, this would only be temporary. America has been able to withstand bigger problem than this. And I dont see any reason to refrain to optimism or to feel bad even at this present point of time.

You're right. Not every American thinks the same way as the posters in this forum and we are divided when it comes to political issues including the debate on immigration. America was built by people who came from another land. Throughout centuries in our history, there has been droves of immigrants who have come and built their lives in this country. I, as first-generation immigrant, share in the same history as the rest of them. Let me tell you this, my journey to US citizenship was not an easy one. I had years of uncertainty during the time I only had a Employment Authorization Document to stay in this country. I waited five years for the law to change so that I can be eligible for a Green Card. I waited another five years to be allowed to apply for citizenship. I value my American citizenship because it wasn't handed to me without any effort on my part.

Times are tough for Americans right now. Looking from the inside ("US") out ("the world") is different from the point of view of an outsider wishing for a life in the US from another country. Jobs are harder for Americans to come by and no one could talk about tough times but the ones who are here and are experiencing it. I know that when tough times happen in America, it is ten thousand times harder for Filipinos in the Philippines to get by. But America must look after it's own people first. That's a concept that is ingrained in the American culture. America is a melting pot of different races and always will be. In my neighborhood, the Middle-Eastern store owner, the African-American cashier at the grocery store, and the Chinese teenager at the Starbucks are all Americans in our eyes. They all deserve the right to a bright future as American citizens and right now things are tough for us because that bright future is in jeopardy. Despite that, America has not closed its borders to immigrants, it's just harder for immigrants to enter right now. But as things change and who knows how long that will take, America may be able to welcome more to its fold.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · May 4, 2009

I read hear how Dale City Nurse's family waited 22 years to immigrate to the USA. I welcome all immigrants who go through the process which is painful and lengthly.

I also think people ( any nationality including Americans) who go into nursing for money usually do not have the right personality to be a good nurse. People who aspire to be nurses despite the odds will prevail, people who use nursing as a step stone to bigger and better things will not survive the process.