Perioperative Nurse Surgeon's Assistant

[Happy Wombat]

Hi there,

I'm curious about the above position and how the PNSA in Australia go about getting positions for themselves.

I understand the requirements of how to be one. But how do someone register as one once they have the qualifications?

I have spoken to a few surgeons and none of them have any idea what PNSA are.

[ceridwyn]

Scrub nurse is the nearest position to assisting a surgeon in Australia. An Assistance would seem to be as such, a Registrar or Resident Doctor. My time in theatre was that Residents and Registrars were always scrabbling for time in theatre and assisting surgeons, there is no room for any nurses accept as scrub nurse. Thats probably why no surgeon has ever heard of a PNSA?

[Happy Wombat]

Hey Ceridwyn,

There is an association for them. And from what I understand, they do certain things which overlap with the registrars. Hence the debate with AHPRA regarding registration.

AANSA | Australian Association of Nurse Surgical Assistants

[ceridwyn]

Oh I see, there is no post graduate education as a nurse surgical assistant, but there is the the post grad in theatre specialties, perhaps these nurses that have loads of experience are now identifying as surgeons assistants, no wonder there is debate with AHPRA. Sorry have not heard about this at all, have no idea unless you have contacts with theatre nurses in major trauma hospitals.

[Sezza83, BSN, RN]

Here is the course:

http://courses.scu.edu.au/courses/master-of-advanced-health-practice/2014

It's a master's degree. I looked in to it but figured it wasn't worth it because I don't know if you'd get a job.

[Sezza83, BSN, RN]

I also wonder if you'd need medicare and prescribing rights? Who pays you? The surgeon, hospital, private health company?

[Happy Wombat]

Hi Sezza,

I know about the course and requirements. I'm wondering about the job opportunity. I don't really want to be spending 30k and stress for a few years and end up with nothing because of 'I do not know how to get a position'. Is it offered by the hospital or by doctors. Or do I have to post my resume somewhere and hope I get lucky?

From what I understand is that Medicare does not cover PNSA. In other words, they will have to work in private hospitals. And the PNSA have withdrawn their application they submitted last year for public funding. So I do not really see them in public sector any time soon.

MSAC - Perioperative Nurse Surgical Assistants (PNSA) to gain eligibility as providers of services that attract a Medicare Benefit Schedule (MBS) rebate for eligible surgical assisting services provided during surgery or procedures.

[Sezza83, BSN, RN]

I think at this point in time the career opportunities just aren't here in Australia. Shame really. I really enjoy assisting and I'm sure plenty of surgeons would prefer an experienced theatre

nurse than a 1st year resident who doesn't know how to scrub.

Are there any PNSA here on allnurse?

[ceridwyn]

Most likely at times they would prefer experience but it is part of being in a profession to nurture and educated those within there medical profession. How else does a profession grow and replenish and reinvent itself if the newies are not let in?

Sometimes I think the nursing profession sees itself as some sort of jelly. Oh! There is a space there at times, I would like that, let's move in. Never thought I would ever be saying that!

[mann0148]

Hello,

Yes, I am a full time PNSA. What you are saying is true in the sense that there is limited job opportunities in the public sector. Currently, I am self-employed doing both public and private work. The public work is sub-contracted with a private hospital. There is no additional AHPRA registration, however we need hospital accreditation like any other surgical assistant. As part of this accreditation we need our own insurance and a form of post-graduate degree (I have a Masters and am currently working through my NP). Internationally the role is very common and is slowly growing here in Australia, especially on the East Coast.

If you want more information regarding the role, the opportunities etc. please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards

[debbieuk]

We had one from the UK come to our hospital and it wasn't recognised. A bit like ODPs.

Didn't even get him a CN position

I would thing a post grad cert in peri op would be more beneficial here.

[ceridwyn]

I have to agree, I was once a Credentialled Diabetes Educator. Credentialled by a very recognised authority that we had to go through hoops, (DE post grad) then address various criteria have references and pay a fortune for the title, even had provider numbers for medicare!!

But alas was told by our union that we were skating on thin ice as we (if practising as a sub contractor) were working outside our scope of practice with AHPRA. Many CDE's still do work as a contractor, or have their own business and have done for many years, but more often than not opt for being employed for the scope of practice reason.

The only nurses not seen as working outside their scope of practice as a contractor are the recognised Nurse Practitioner with AHPRA working in the advanced role and has a nurse Practioners Masters degree and post grad in Peri op nursing as a Surgeons assistant would need.

good luck.