The Circumcision Discussion - page 40

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More

  1. by   HM2VikingRN
    I sat through a wound care seminar in class the other day....Anyway one of the products used for skin replacement apparently has foreskin as a constituent ingredient.....(Just checked my notes its Dermagraft)
  2. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from mo-mo
    In parts of Africa, girls are routinely circumcised, it's a Muslim practice. . All or most of the external genitalia is removed.
    If you think about it, probably these women have a slightly lower incidence of bladder infections and STDs: The labia, if proper hygiene isn't used, could harbor bacteria and viruses. Sans clitorus, a girl may not put her dirty hands in the area as often as a girl with an intact clit...

    Male and female circumcision are related because it's the same practice. Different sex and different motives, of course.

    I believe that Americans, in general, are misinformed about male circumcision. Although Jews have been performing this practice for thousands of years, nonJewish Americans have only been routinely circumcising boys for a few generations.

    What we didn't learn in 8th grade history class:
    During WWI, our boys were hip-deep in trenches frequently. They also spent alot of time in the many brothels in western Europe. This combination must have had some nasty results b/c the military started circ'ing our boys to keep em cleaner in those conditions. By the time the war ended, our docs were circ'ing our babies, as well. It was easier than doing it to full grown men, cuz they didn't have to worry about anesthesia, I suppose...

    When I was pregnant with a boy in 2000, I found this awesome article (can't think of the term for a paper that explores many different studies and summarizes a trend or a result, but that's what it was.) I was so excited! I finally was going to find out what science says is favorable for my child. (cuz, at the end of the day, thats what we all really want, right?) The paper compared many reputable studies, and guess what...It's a tie!

    He considered rates of infections and penile cancer and UTI's and STDs and botched surgeries and nonretracting foreskins, and more. He compared the pros with the cons and it's a wash. Sorry I can't remeber the title of the article, but it is completely unbiased and very informative.

    In the end, my husband and I didn't circumcise, but we definitely rode the fence on the issue.
    Its called metanalysis
  3. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from Tweety
    I'm not particularly passionate about this topic one way or another, and I'm not easily offended by anything in this thread. However, can I give a high five, AMEN, You Go Girl! For the highlighted sentence above.
    Double Ditto!
  4. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from GardenDove
    Female circumcision is purely an African cultural tradition that crosses religious divisions and is practiced by Muslims, Christians and Pagans. I don't think Muslims elsewhere practice this.
    That actually is incorrect.

    The practice is documented in a number of other areas, including the Middle East, Asia, and Europe (most often Eastern Europe). It also was done to juvenile and adult females, here in the USA, allegedly to treat masturbation and mental illness/hysteria. There are documented surguries in the USA at least up to the 1940s.

    It has been documented in several religions, including some Coptic Christians in Eastern Europe.

    The procedures are still done, surreptiously/privately in the USA, England and France, among communities of an minority culture/religion.
  5. by   zoniekat
    I think they are outdated and needless. It's cosmetic surgery on an infant. There's no good reason to do them.

    As for how to help when they are done there are 4 ways to make it easier...1. Use sugar syrup (endorphins), 2. Always Lidocaine. 3. Plastibell use by the doctor, and 4. Tylenol afterwards.

    One thing I'm going to say that is personal is that I've had sex with circumcized and uncircumsized and the uncircumsized was far more comfortable!! That's something that is not umimportant.
  6. by   mvanz9999
    That's the general concensus from what I've read.

    Another link:
  7. by   carolinapooh
    Quote from Anagray
    Mojo, I am not sure why one would quote an OPINION of some unknown person ( and a very insulting opinion I should add) to prove that circumcion is good.

    I grew up in a country where men are not circumcised and I never had any problems with any of my partners regarding hygeine. My husband is circumcised but our son isn't and I personally find it offensive when people say (or quote) insulting things regarding circumcision.

    And just to add on a subject of HPV, before I came to the US I had a clean bill of health, but I was infected with HPV by a circumcised partner here, in US. I honestly believe that the main cause of any STD is unprotectd sex, not whether one has a foreskin or not.

    My in-laws are British, my husband is British, and when my sister in law was pregnant two years ago we actually had this conversation (three of us were mildly intoxicated and my sister-in-law was having a laugh with us as a result) and I really don't get the whole American fascination with circumcision. If it was SOOOOO awful to not be circumcised, don't you think all of Europe would have some sort of nasty disease? I've known my husband for nine years and I have yet to hear of him having some INFECTION because he's unclean. Take a bath, folks...

    That said, it's a choice, and if we ever have a son, we won't unless it's medically necessary. What others do with their sons is their business. But I refuse to have individuals who have no experience with it tell me that not circumcising means the man is dirty or more prone to disease. None of my relatives over here in the UK (I'm actually in England right now!) have ever heard of someone being ill because they weren't circumcised, and if it were as common as some Americans would lead you to believe, you'd think at least ONE incident would come up. Not a one.

    Ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. As I said, take a bath, folks. Soap, water, and good hygiene will generally work wonders.

    And to Anagray, I too agree - unprotected sex is what causes one to catch an STD, and not the presence or absence of a foreskin!
  8. by   morte
    Quote from zoniekat

    One thing I'm going to say that is personal is that I've had sex with circumcized and uncircumsized and the uncircumsized was far more comfortable!! That's something that is not umimportant.
    yup....if i had had a son, he would not have been circ'd, for his future wife as well as himself
    mvan--great article
  9. by   carolinapooh
    Quote from Dixiecup
    I'm almost afraid to post! This is only my opinion!

    The uncircumcised penis is just downright ugly! I'm sorry but it is. Not to mention nasty most of the time. Soap and water once or twice a day, even three times a day just isn't going to get it.

    Oral sex would be absolutely out of the question unless possibly right out of the shower.
    Since our most intimate parts are concealed and protected by two folds of skin which harbor their own share of bacteria and wetness on their own, I would think that, in all fairness, you could say the same about us, right? I mean, we urinate, you can't possibly believe that wiping with toilet paper doesn't cause some urine to, uhm, MIGRATE, could you?
  10. by   Jo Dirt
    When I was in nursing school when I did my OB rotation I remember them doing a circumcision. They brought the poor little baby in the nursery and I remember them taking out this board and strapping the little guy to it. I couldn't watch but I remember the screaming.
    This happens to be the hospital where I will deliver. I think my husband wants the baby to be circumcised but he is concerned about the pain as well.
    Do they generally use anesthetic? Do most people opt out of circumcision anymore, at least at the hospital?
  11. by   CSLee3
    Okay, I will bite...tree huggers don't all attack me at once....speaking as a male...get the circ. Your child will thank you when he grows up in this cruel unfair world. This is a hot topic with a lot of schools, folks and so on. There is so much research and stats out there it can be confusing. Most reports I have seen are in support of the procedure, citing HIV rates and STD transfer rates as well as cancer. Of course we all know studies can be slanted any way the author intends. SO is L&D clinician..she says that at her facility the rates for circ run about 60% for and 40% not doing procedure. Some choices are based on education, research by the family, some by religion or culture, but quite honestly a good portion of these new moms can't even spell their name much less know the father and the rationale of circumcision or not is the last thing on their mind. These moms don't want the nurse to change the channel, casue Springer is on, or they need a smoke break. Getting back to your question...
    Some docs use suprapubic blocks with lidocaine, some use local lido cream, emla cream pre and post procedure, yet others use nothing. To be honest, I can't remember my procedure, so it must not have caused too much trauma to me as some child experts would say. Usually if they are speaking out about it, they don't have one, or could be a hypocritacle view such as the PETA president talking about us evil meat eaters, and he is wearing a leather watch bank, belt and leather shoes...BUT...SPEAK to the doctor and make your wishes/demands be known. Start a rapport with him or her. (just make sure no epi finds it's way into the lido mix...things can fall off with vasoconstriction! LOL). There is Gomco, Mogan, PlastyBell and good old fashion custom carving! The Gomco procedure and Mogan are very popular in these parts. They go really fast, with minimal side effects. Depending on where you live, your family, friends, social circles...these may very well all have a part in your decision. Make it yours and not any one else's including mine. Most "boys" want to look like their dad..if this if the only reason, so be it. He might well thank you later. However, keep in mind that adults rarely undergo elective circs and once the baby is discharged it is almost impossible for medicaid or insurance, HMOs etc. to pay for it.
    Tough decision but considering all the poor baby has to go through like being shoved into this mean world and getting their heels stuck with needles, injections in the thigh and meds in their eyes, etc. etc. the circ turns out to be another unpleasant experiences, if they are premies, they may even get lavage fed, frequent blood draws ,etc. so look at it as another procedure. If we stop one for the pain it causes, should we stop all??? The cord when cut, could transmit pain....hehe you never know what some will come up with.
    Anyway...Hope that helps....hang in there and good luck with your new family member!:spin:
  12. by   dawngloves
    If I can give you another spin on CSLee3's opinion, I let my husband decide since it was of no matter to me and he, being a man, had a better perspective.
    He said "Hell no!" to a circ.I brought up the whole "looking like dad and the other kids", schpeil and he said that his son shouldn't be so privvy to what his father's penis looks like and why are other guys checking out his son's penis in the locker room?? OK. So no circ and no problems so far.
    I do have a problem with CSLee3 comparing a circ to Vit K shots or a feeding tube inthe NICU. A circ is elective and non essential. Things like an ABG or eating are not optional in that setting.
    Since your OB will do the circ you should talk to them about how they do it.
  13. by   htrn
    I have seen circs done both with and without analgesia. Most OBs I work with use a dorsal penile block with preservative free lidocaine, some even with buffered PF lidociane. I have seen some family practice use emla cream on the penis 90 minutes prior to the procedure and 10mg/kg tylenol 2 hours prior to procedure for analgesia. As a side note - picture putting emla on a small moving target and then getting a tegaderm over it - that's one for americas funniest home videos

    All of the research out there is very confusing. The American Acadamy of Pediatrics recognizes circumcision as an elective procedure, but does not advocate either way. I personally don't know one pediatrician that does them.

    There is a social stigma associated with circumcision - but I still think it is more a social stima with the parents than with the kids. My 17 year old has just informed me that it isn't a big deal in his locker room. My pediatrician told me I could explain it as simply as "Dad had a surgery that you didn't need to have."

    Again, this is a very personal choice between you and your husband. The line came down on the side of cirucumcision in my house when my hubby so eloquently announced that he was a helmet head and he was not going to have any boys that are aardvarks. If I had to do it all over again, I'd tell hubby to get over it - aardvarks rule!!!

    The circs do heal quickly and if the docs use analgesia during the procedure and you are able to use tylenol prn afterward for a couple of days, things should go well.

    I would be very adament with the MD about analgesia before, during and after. Believe it or not, they do remember. Studies have been done on pain reaction in infants that were circumcised with and without analagesia and their response to pain (ie immunizations) up to two years after the circ. They remember and it does have long term effects.

    Good luck - and there is no such thing as a wrong answer.