Nurses and smoking

[ashleyh_84]

Do you think it is ok if a nurse or a doctor smokes? Because i know when i go to the doctors office with my boyfriend and he tells him that he smokes that he gos on and on of how he shouldnt be smoking at all. But then we go outside and see nurses smoking and such!! So what do you guys think?

[DaFreak71]

I am an ex-smoker who still finds it difficult to resist the urge to smoke at times. It is an insidious addiction that reaches far beyond the physical. Smoking is a coping device. Feeling stressed out? Smoke. Feeling really happy? Smoke. Feeling bored? Smoke. It's what you do when you don't know what else to do with your time and your feelings. The physical addiction is much easier to deal with than the psychological addiction.

I hate to see health care professionals smoke. I lose respect for them. I feel bad for their patients because despite their best efforts, they still stink. I feel sorry for people who are so defensive about smoking (something they KNOW they shouldn't be doing) that they concoct all these absurd examples about how driving to work and eating processed foods are examples of us all being hypocrites. I submit that this is a fallacious arguement because there is a ton of OVERWHELMING evidence that smoking=lung cancer=death and many other health problems. There is no evidence that driving on the freeway to work causes death by inhalation of exhaust fumes from inside your car. There is ZERO evidence that shows that if you eat a hot dog, even every day that you will develop cancer and die. Of course we all know that eating unhealthy foods CAN lead to health problems, but it's not as though the majority of us eat 20 twinkies every day for years on end. So this arguement is basically all about making those who point out the stupidity of smoking the villain. I do not dislike people who smoke, but I do believe that they have significantly less credibility than people who do not smoke.

What I think is upsetting for me about health care workers who smoke, is that they are actively ignoring the obvious and tragic consequences of smoking. If they have this logical disconnect in their minds that allows them to engage in such deadly behavior, what other areas are they disconnecting from? It's a coping mechanism that becomes a habit, I don't think that once you develop a maladaptive coping mechanism that you can pick and choose when you are going to use it and when you are going to fully process the information and come to logical decisions.

The entire concept of "smokers rights" is absurd. What about alcoholics rights? Alcohol is legal so does that mean that as long as the alcoholic isn't driving drunk or abusing others that we shouldn't point out how terrible alcoholism is? The concept of smokers rights was originated by the tobacco companies who want their victims (err, customers) to assert their "rights" by being vocal about anti-smoking legislation. You are a tool if you buy into this. You are essentially a mouth piece for a company that has every reason to believe that you are going to die if you keep using their product. If you showed half as much loyalty to your own body and health as you do for the tobacco companies, you'd put the cigarettes down.

When I smoked, I was cautioned many times to quit by nurses and doctors. The ones who smoked always cracked me up. The feeling I came away with was that if quitting smoking was possible to do, why didn't they quit? I also felt like they were exaggerating the health risks of smoking, reasoning that since they smoked, it couldn't really be all that bad..otherwise they wouldn't do it. So if you think that you can effectively educate a patient about the risks associated with smoking, you are wrong. Just like the parent who smokes and thinks that they can be effective in educating their children about the dangers of smoking. I know from personal experience that when you smoke you have a lot of guilt and shame about it. This is because you are doing something that you know better than to do. It is wrong and no manner of making comparrisons to freeway drivers is going to make it less wrong. If you believe those lies that you tell yourself, fine..but don't expect the rest of us to believe it.

Yeah, this was a pretty heavy handed post. I'm not typically preechy, but it gets my goat when smart, educated people defend a deadly practice and think that it doesn't have an effect on patient care.

Quitting is hard. Christ, it's really really hard. I think the key to effectively being able to quit smoking for good is to develop other ways of dealing with anger, stress and boredom. A lot of people say they smoke because they are stressed out, and it is true that smoking relieves stress, but it's not true that it's only a habit in response to stress, otherwise you'd only smoke during stressful moments, not after every meal, when you wake up in the morning, etc. It's a habit that is hard to break, I feel much love for those who struggle with this. I wish I could offer more constructive advise to those wanting to quit. All I can say is that you have to make a choice to quit and you have to learn alternate ways of dealing with the feelings that you associate with making you want a cigarette. Easier said than done, but well worth it in the long run.

Adri

P.S. for all those who are wanting to quit or feeling bad because you've tried and haven't succeeded yet....:kiss

[MedicalZebra]

At the dialysis unit I go to, patients have to walk through the cloud of nurses' smoke to get into the building-- and when the nurses come back from their smoke breaks, that's all you can smell. Not too many paients who smoke ever sucessfully give it up-- not surprising, when there's so much exposure at dialysis.

[thatoneguy]

I hate to see health care professionals smoke. I lose respect for them.

why? it is not their right to smoke why lose respect.

I feel sorry for people who are so defensive about smoking (something they KNOW they shouldn't be doing) that they concoct all these absurd examples about how driving to work and eating processed foods are examples of us all being hypocrites.

not absurd, but ture.

There is no evidence that driving on the freeway to work causes death by inhalation of exhaust fumes from inside your car.

yes there is. plenty of it.

Of course we all know that eating unhealthy foods CAN lead to health problems,

so how is it not hypocritical to get mad at a smoker if your a bad eater.

I do not dislike people who smoke, but I do believe that they have significantly less credibility than people who do not smoke.

why is that? do fat people have less credibility also? you dont dislike them but instead direspect them, not a better thing IMO.

What I think is upsetting for me about health care workers who smoke, is that they are actively ignoring the obvious and tragic consequences of smoking.

so, why is this upsetting and why take my smoking so personal, i dont even live in the same state as you.

The entire concept of "smokers rights" is absurd. What about alcoholics rights?

no its not, if the alconolics are your patients you should tell them about the bad parts. same for smokers, but if they are not your patients why do you feel the need to tell them anything about it. do i not have the right to smoke?

It is wrong and no manner of making comparrisons to freeway drivers is going to make it less wrong.

its not wrong. maybe for you its wrong. i think its wrong that you should have any say in my personal life regaurding anything.

Yeah, this was a pretty heavy handed post. I'm not typically preechy, but it gets my goat when smart, educated people defend a deadly practice and think that it doesn't have an effect on patient care.

no worries i really dont take it personaly. i do think it effects the patient, if the hospital wants to make no smoking while on duty thats ok. not trying to defend the habbit but the fact that its my life and for whatever reason i do this or that if its legal who are you to tell me its wrong. i think its wrong to spank your child does that give me the right brand you and strip you of your right to spank your child.

defending my right to make personal choices is not the same as defending smoking, as i said before, i think smoking should be illegal, but unitl that day its wrong to tell anyone what to do or not do in their personal life. if its your patient thats different, but i am not your patient.

[jerseyboy]

Dear lostdruid,

You think it's comparing apples to oranges and a "fallacious argument" to compare health care professionals who smoke to health care workers who are obese? Why is that?

You say you lose respect for those who smoke. Do you lose respect for those who are obese?

You stated you are an ex-smoker, the more buring question is... are you obese?

[nursejohio, ASN, RN]

agreed we should be out of the way and use something to cover the smell. at the work place anyway. but this is funny too, we smell urine and all kinds of things but dont complain about that so much and look down on those that make a big deal about it, which shows respect. where did the respect go for smokers, its a control issue with smokers.

Granted, we do have to deal with all kinds of stinky smells at work. Those, however are generally created by people who can't the MRSA in their urine, the incontinence, the vomit... It's a whole different ballgame when I have to walk through a cloud of smoke so thick my hair stinks when I get inside. It shows respect to not belittle a 76 yo woman for not being able to hold her bladder, she doesn't have a choice. Where's the respect for my right to not breathe smoke? I am a firm believer in everyone's rights end exactly where their nose does, your right to smoke ends when it interferes in my right to clean air, I have to breathe it.

[thatoneguy]

Granted, we do have to deal with all kinds of stinky smells at work. Those, however are generally created by people who can't the MRSA in their urine, the incontinence, the vomit... It's a whole different ballgame when I have to walk through a cloud of smoke so thick my hair stinks when I get inside. It shows respect to not belittle a 76 yo woman for not being able to hold her bladder, she doesn't have a choice. Where's the respect for my right to not breathe smoke? I am a firm believer in everyone's rights end exactly where their nose does, your right to smoke ends when it interferes in my right to clean air, I have to breathe it.

than you should stop driving becaue that effects my nose and that also interferes in my right to clean air.

BTW, it is very different to lobby for a band/making it illegal, than tormenting and persecuting the individual. to think that is what is happening here, for doing something as legal and harmful as driving your car.

[DaFreak71]

Dear lostdruid,

You think it's comparing apples to oranges and a "fallacious argument" to compare health care professionals who smoke to health care workers who are obese? Why is that?

You say you lose respect for those who smoke. Do you lose respect for those who are obese?

You stated you are an ex-smoker, the more buring question is... are you obese?

Read closer friend, I did not compare smokers to those who are obese. This was an arguement brought up by someone who replied to my post. If you'll go back and actually read MY post, you'll see that what I said was that it was fallacious to compare health care workers who smoked to people who drive on the freeway to work (an absurd point by someone else).

Adri

[DaFreak71]

why? it is not their right to smoke why lose respect.

not absurd, but ture.

yes there is. plenty of it.

Please link two studies that show conclusively that driving to work on the freeway causes death by inhalation of exhaust.

so how is it not hypocritical to get mad at a smoker if your a bad eater.

Unless there is an eating disorder at play, most of us who occassionally eat a twinkie or a candy bar don't do it at regular intervals throughtout the day. I don't rely on a box of Ho-Ho's to get me through stressful moments, nor do I need one when I first get up in the morning. We are talking about someone who is is addicted to a deadly substance versus someone who eats an occasional sweet? You honestly see a link here? Please show me where it proves conclusivley that eating a few twinkies causes death.

why is that? do fat people have less credibility also? you dont dislike them but instead direspect them, not a better thing IMO.

I have less respect for dieticians who are obese (unless it is due to a thyroid condition, etc). Practice what you preach or you are a hypocrite. I think you are making the mistake of trying to apply this to the world at large, I am speaking of health care professionals.

so, why is this upsetting and why take my smoking so personal, i dont even live in the same state as you.

This is not a personal attack, so you can leave yourself out of the equation when there's a discussion on the board. I don't take YOUR smoking personally, I don't even take smoking personally...I simply stated that I do not believe that health care professionals who smoke hold much credibility.

no its not, if the alconolics are your patients you should tell them about the bad parts. same for smokers, but if they are not your patients why do you feel the need to tell them anything about it. do i not have the right to smoke?

If I'm drunk and trying to tell an alcoholic patient about the evils of drinking....how successful am I going to be? And once again, I never once said anything about smokers who are not my patients or smokers who are not nurses. I do not see the need for me to go telling every smoker to quit, not my business...not my place. If they are taking care of me though, credibility just went down the drain.

its not wrong. maybe for you its wrong. i think its wrong that you should have any say in my personal life regaurding anything.

You really seem to be trying to make this all about you, when in fact it is not. I made no personal attack against you. I didn't even mention anything about smokers who are not health care professionals. Please try to stay on topic and quit making this into a personal thing.

no worries i really dont take it personaly. i do think it effects the patient, if the hospital wants to make no smoking while on duty thats ok. not trying to defend the habbit but the fact that its my life and for whatever reason i do this or that if its legal who are you to tell me its wrong. i think its wrong to spank your child does that give me the right brand you and strip you of your right to spank your child.

defending my right to make personal choices is not the same as defending smoking, as i said before, i think smoking should be illegal, but unitl that day its wrong to tell anyone what to do or not do in their personal life. if its your patient thats different, but i am not your patient.

Wow, are you intentionally missing the point or is there an issue with reading comprehension?

Adri

[thatoneguy]

read closer friend, i did not compare smokers to those who are obese. this was an arguement brought up by someone who replied to my post. if you'll go back and actually read my post, you'll see that what i said was that it was fallacious to compare health care workers who smoked to people who drive on the freeway to work (an absurd point by someone else).

adri

why must you try to belittle my point and those that dont agree with you. your car emissions do cause heath problems, more so than smoking. and it is your choice to drive. are you really uneducated to this or just that thickheaded. not trying to attack you but come on, you say that there is no evidence, try to suck on your tail pipe for a few hours and i will suck on my cig see who dies first. doesnt cause any heath problems you got to be kidding.

here is a link for you. http://www.nsc.org/ehc/mobile/mse_fs.htm a

little something from that:

according to the u.s. environmental protection agency (epa), driving a car is the single most polluting thing that most of us do. motor vehicles emit millions of tons of pollutants into the air each year. in many urban areas, motor vehicles are the single largest contributor to ground-level ozone, a major component of smog. ground-level ozone is the most serious air pollution problem in the northeast and mid-atlantic states. cars also emit several pollutants classified as toxics, which cause as many as 1,500 cases of cancer in the country each year. auto emissions also contribute to the environmental problems of acid rain an global warning.

a little more.

motor vehicles generate three major pollutants: hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, and carbon monoxide.

• hydrocarbons react with nitrogen oxides in the presence of sunlight and elevated temperatures to form ground-level ozone. it can cause eye irritation, coughing, wheezing, and shortness of breath and can lead to permanent lung damage.
  
• nitrogen oxides (nox) also contribute to the formation of ozone and contribute to the formation of acid rain and to water quality problems.
  
• carbon monoxide is a colorless, odorless, deadly gas. it reduces the flow of oxygen in the bloodstream and can impair mental functions and visual perception. in urban areas, motor vehicles are responsible for as much as 90 percent of carbon monoxide in the air.

how is that for your no evidence idea, talk about an absurd statement. you get the point yet? sould i highlight the cancer, lung damage, mental functions and visual issues caused by it. not to mention all the other thing it does to the ecosystem, which after a chain of events causes even more health problems.

and yes it is personal, its my time, before work on break at lunch ect..trying to tell me what not to do on my time is personal. and is just wrong, of course unless its illegal which it is not, so its not your place to say anything. if you want to lobby for it to be illegal fine but that does not include tormenting and persecuting the individual smoker in the work place or anywhere else.

o i know you wanted more links well here you go.

http://www.rowatworks.com/science/incineratortoxic/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/369169.stm

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/

[DaFreak71]

why must you try to belittle my point and those that dont agree with you.

The poster was confused about who said what, I was clarifying. Why must you make yourself out to be a victim? Nobody is coming down on you, so relax.

your car emissions do cause heath problems, more so than smoking. and it is your choice to drive. are you really uneducated to this or just that thickheaded. not trying to attack you but come on, you say that there is no evidence, try to suck on your tail pipe for a few hours and i will suck on my cig see who dies first. doesnt cause any heath problems you got to be kidding.

here is a link for you. http://www.nsc.org/ehc/mobile/mse_fs.htm a

Here's an idea: Go drink some cyanide. I'll bet that will kill you quicker than smoking too, but who would do that unless they were suicidal? You are throwing out random tidbits of information that is not germain to the topic at hand. You are jumping from point to point without adressing the real issue which was health care workers and smoking. I never aserted that pollution wasn't a problem, I asserted that DRIVING TO WORK DOES NOT KILL YOU FROM EXHAUST. Now go find a study that contradicts that statement, otherwise let it go.

how is that for your no evidence idea, talk about an absurd statement. you get the point yet?

Wow, talk about missing the point. I did not say that air pollution does not exist. I said (as a rebuttal to your absurd point) that smoking is not on par with "the dangers of driving to work". Once again, show me two studies (you said you there are plenty, so two shouldn't be too hard to come up with) that clearly state that driving to work causes death as a result from exhaust. No doubt you can find countless studies that show that living or working next to a freeway (read: extended exposure) can cause a whole littany of health issues, but YOUR claim was that driving to work on the freeway was just as dangerous as smoking.

***clipped a bunch of factoids about air pollution, but nothing stating that it's worse than smoking or that you die from driving to work****

sould i highlight the cancer, lung damage, mental functions and visual issues caused by it. not to mention all the other thing it does to the ecosystem, which after a chain of events causes even more health problems.

We aren't discussing the eco-system. You asserted that it's hypocritical for someone who drives to work or eats processed food to say that health care workers shouldn't smoke because they are destroying their health too. Honestly, if you can't stay on topic for more than five seconds...

and yes it is personal, its my time, before work on break at lunch ect..trying to tell me what not to do on my time is personal. and is just wrong, of course unless its illegal which it is not, so its not your place to say anything. if you want to lobby for it to be illegal fine but that does not include tormenting and persecuting the individual smoker in the work place or anywhere else.

Please point out to me where I told YOU not to smoke. I said that health care workers who smoke have less credibility. I never told you you didn't have a right to smoke, so will you please stop belaboring a point that nobody is argueing? I also never said smoking should be illegal.

I submit that you are on the defensive because you know what you are doing is stupid and it makes you less credible in the eyes of your patients (those who know that you smoke). I have never asserted that all people everywhere should stop smoking (although it would be ideal, that is outside of the scope of this post). I asserted that health care workers who smoke suffer from credibility issues. Just like an (actively)alcoholic parent warning their kids against drinking, just like Presidents who rant about morality and then have sex with their aids, just like..well you get the point. Imagine how much more effective you'd be as a nurse who argued FOR health, instead of trying to defend a habit that is killing you.

By the way, if I bought into the ridiculous arguement that driving to work = death from exhaust fumes, then wouldn't that make you doubley stupid for not only subjecting yourself to the huge risk that smoking holds, but ALSO from the exhaust? The difference is that alot of us don't have a choice about driving on the freeway to go to work. We drive on the freeway because in many cases it's the only way to get to work. Unless you feel like walking 45 miles each way, which I submit would increase your chances of death even more (getting hit by a car). Smoking is a choice, driving to work is not, unless you like to be poor or walking for eight hours a day.

Adri

[thatoneguy]

for the obesity thing, how can you teach a patient to eat right and then go have your twinky at lunch time, wheater its once a month or not. a twinky is in no way good for you. if you have done this once your a hypocrite.

for the creditbility of an obese dietician, do they have to tell you their personal medical problem in order to be credible. why cant their knowledge and schooling sever as their credibility.

[DaFreak71]

o i know you wanted more links well here you go.

http://www.rowatworks.com/science/incineratortoxic/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/369169.stm

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/

lol, your first link deals with incinerators, not cars.

your second link contained this:

but a british gp, a former chairman of the gps in asthma group, said that while car pollution worsened existing asthma, there was little evidence that it actually caused the condition. dr dermot ryan, a loughborough gp, said that the focus should fall instead on cigarette smoking as the primary villain.

"i'm not too sure car pollution is the number one enemy. 400 people a day are dying in this country due to cigarette smoking," he said.

thanks for proving my point for me.

your third link was basically an arizona deq page that said air pollution is linked with health problems. i didn't see where it said that driving to work on the freeway caused death.

adri