Just a note on the NP vs PA debate...

Specialties NP

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I did not want to fuel this debate. In fact, I hadn't realized there was this much NP-PA hostility until I found this board. Honestly, I think it a trivial debate in the grand scheme of things.... HOWEVER... NPR (National Public Radio) covered a story 3/5/04 in Chicago on the US prision system and new lobbying to eliminate unlicensed persons (PAs) to provide health care for the inmates. The lobbying focus is that since there are no actual physicians to supervise PAs (unlicensed to practice independently) they should not be seeing state or federal inmates. As most would know on this board, I wonder who will replace those providers... hmmmm? I realize that there are plenty of NPs already working in the prison system but I think this would be a bold statement by the feds.

Speaking of PA's versus NP's, my question is:

Have PA's had the effect of driving down NP salaries?

I was researching average NP salaries in my area, and I was surpized at how low they are.

:uhoh21:

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PA's do indeed recertify every 6 years and must meet cme requirements. If I am not mistaken, physicians also recertify and meet cme req

CME's...NP's, MD's, and PA's must have them...only the PA has to take the PA exam AGAIN, every 6 years...

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PA's do indeed recertify every 6 years and must meet cme requirements. If I am not mistaken, physicians also recertify and meet cme req

Physicians are licensed and don't need to retest to maintain licensure. However, if the physician is board certified, he/she needs to retake a board certification test every 10 years.

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Speaking of PA's versus NP's, my question is:

Have PA's had the effect of driving down NP salaries?

I was researching average NP salaries in my area, and I was surpized at how low they are.

:uhoh21:

Oddly enough, PAs make slightly more than NPs in my area. A member here explained that this was due to PAs typically work in better paying clinics, whereas NPs typically work in hospitals.

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Oddly enough, PAs make slightly more than NPs in my area. A member here explained that this was due to PAs typically work in better paying clinics, whereas NPs typically work in hospitals.

Same here. About $5,000 a year more, at least according to salary.com.

Hmmmm ... interesting.

:eek:

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Here's a few things everyone should keep in mind. The trends in health care show that providers like NPs and PAs are needed. Likely, the market will grow significantly for both. There are pros and cons to both. Universities are adding PA and NP programs.... it is a job market that IS growing. The bottomline is if your are a nurse it is more logical to become a NP (for most). If you are you want to be a healthcare provider and are currently not a nurse (and want to make more than a unit secretary and do cool stuff), a PA is a nice option. From what I know, the only professional organizations that oppose expansion of practice for NPs and PAs are Family Practice Groups (MDs). Good Luck to ALL in finding the niche and $$$$

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On a second side note, someone mentioned that PAs make on the average $5000.00 more per year that NPs. I have some thoughts on that. 1st if $5000 a year is going to be the deciding factor of becoming an NP or PA you should reconsider your motivations. Take a better look at how each provides care. You MUST also consider that NPs have a larger scope of where they practice (some of which are very specific NNP/WHNP/PNP. Some make more and some make less. There are pediatric NPs who usually make considerably less than most NPs (as we know pediatric MDs are the lowest on the salary for MDs hence PNPs can make less-sometimes). There are also NPs who split time and still work as an RN. Hence, their reported salary might weaken the national averages. In my opinion, the closest real comparison would be between PAs and either Adult or Family NPs. I have never seen that comparison. You cannot clump all NPs into a salary bracket. There are many factors to consider. 2nd someone also mentioned that PAs need to sit for boards every 6 years (which I was unaware of). keep in mind that NPs may not sit for boards every 6 but you do have to keep up with CE credits for being a Advance nurse & your specialization & your RN CEs & as well as license requirements for independent perscriptive authority (just a quick plug for NPs). Good Luck to all!

Oh, I am jealous of the surgical rotation some PA programs have.... but I am an RN so becoming a NP is the best choice for me! Again, Good luck to all!

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Not sure what it is you are trying to scream out, but let's just say anybody can be a PA, with or without a bachelors degree....only a Registered Nurse can be a NP, CNM, CNA, etc. A PA is just that...an Assistant to a MD/DO; just like a nursing assistant is an assistant to an RN or LPN. The only ones I see, besides yourself, who have issues, are the PA's themselves, who hate the term assistant, have been trying for years to get it changed...why even Yale calls their program the physician associate program, but not even Connecticut will allow the PA's tpo call themselves anything but physician assistants. PA's are assistants, they always have been, and always will be...they assist doctors with all the scut work, and all their work needs to be reviewed and approved by a supervising physician; anymore they are not...that's the way it's legislated, accept it, and forget it.

Not SCREAMING anything, and my issues are only with those who like put themselves above others with their boasting of "autonomy." This seems to be a big "issue" with NPs who like to brag about all their glorious autonomy, but (as I stated before)

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Not SCREAMING anything, and my issues are only with those who like put themselves above others with their boasting of "autonomy." This seems to be a big "issue" with NPs who like to brag about all their glorious autonomy, but (as I stated before)

...such an angry young person...NP's don't have those issues you allude to...they just have the benefit of a broader scope of practice, which is the intent of all NP programs...to provide mid-level practitioners who can practice independently, preferably in an area of acute physician shortages, with the blessing of state laws that insure that level of autonomy; PA's are also mid-level practitioners, but their training is geared towards providing assistance to a licensed physician, who must, by law, monitor their every medical act. PA's cannot own practices, cannot be partners in practices, cannot set up shop, hang a shingle, and go off independently as a mid level provider. There are differences, and it's not the boasting that you cry about...it's just the way it is :chuckle

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...such an angry young person...There are differences, and it's not the boasting that you cry about...it's just the way it is :chuckle

No one is angry...sarcastic perhaps (which many here don't seem to understand the difference). And I don't recall giving my age, did I?? But thanks for not saying "old"...

Since you seem to place independent practice as a main factor in choosing an NP over a PA, could you explain why only 1% are practicing independently??? Must be some reason why more aren't?? Perhaps independent practice ain't all it's made out to be...

and just to make sure you understand I'm not angry...here's a little smiley for ya :)

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pa's are assistants, they always have been, and always will be...they assist doctors with all the scut work

my my, such arrogence and anger towards the pa's! maybe if they are just for "scut work" and are merely "assistants", then can you tell me why they receive much more education and training? namely, on average the pa will complete nearly 2200 hours of clinical vs. the np's barely sufficient 300-700 hours? why do pa's do 5-12 weeks of rotations vs. np's only completing a pathetic 40 hours?

as far as "anyone" getting a pa, more and more programs demand a master's degree in order to practice, something not seen in the np training. oh! and the majority of pa schools of medicine require 500 hours of direct helath care experience before admission where the nursing schools do not require any direct care experience.

maybe you should actually learn a little bit about what you're railing against. it's obvious you're uniformed but it's admirable that you are so proud of your little profession. it's always been my experience that it is those who yell the most who are the least competent.

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As far as "anyone" getting a PA, more and more programs demand a Master's Degree in order to practice, something not seen in the NP training. Oh! And the majority of PA schools of medicine require 500 hours of direct helath care experience before admission where the nursing schools do not require any direct care experience.

There's a load of misinformation. I don't know what schools you've researched by your knowledge base doesn't tie into my reality.

NP programs that I'm familiar with require at least 1 year (2080 hrs) of direct health care experience before you can obtain part-time admission. Full-time admission requires 2 years of experience or (4160 hrs). These same NP programs are only MS degrees. For a comparison, MidWestern University just axed their BS PA program for an exclusive MS PA program.

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