Michigan NP schools

KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN · Feb 9, 2020

On 2/5/2020 at 9:43 PM, rulajay said:
. how many days a week did you have class and/or clinical throughout the program?

UofM Flint MSN. Classes online 1-4 times/week, clinicals minimum 24 (most students did more, up to 40) hours/week.

Average reading load through program was 500 pages/week. Most students studied Lange medical school series books independently.

On 2/5/2020 at 9:43 PM, rulajay said:
did you work throughout your program?

Yes, full time bedside.

On 2/5/2020 at 9:43 PM, rulajay said:
. how did your school support you? did they help you find clinical placements?

No real support in terms of clinical placement. They offered some positions but they all were in places no reasonable person would go (the innerest of inner city or hopelessly rural)

Some support in terms of waiting for clinicals (some students have to miss a semester for it). Those who did not survive first semester were all or almost all accepted into Ed or so-called "leadership".

On 2/5/2020 at 9:43 PM, rulajay said:
how long did it take you to finish your program?

18 months

Now:

To become a good NP clinician, one must master physical exam, clinical analytical thinking, time management, communication and critical thinking. These skills can be either:

1) brought up to certain level while working as an RN and then increased (QUITE a bit) while training for NP role;

Or

2) developed entirely during NP training.

Being a new grad BSN without heavy previous medical background means your level of above skills is pretty much baseline.

Full time working as an RN means over 1000 hours. However, how one spends those 1000 hours and what can be taught during them is a good question. There are tons of RN positions open for new grads where the opportunities to learn something useful for the future NP role simply do not exist. The new nurses there learn not how to think but how to "provide excellent customer service" in atmosphere of uninerrupted bullying and harrassment. As NP students, such nurses look pitiful.

DNP programs usually have slightly more "clinical hours" but their curriculums are notoriously known for being stuffed tight with useless nursing theory fluff which, even with clinical hours, doesn't really contribute to development of future clinicians. Plus, all DNP programs place heavy accent on "nursing research" (a subject entirely not known anywhere except for nursing itself), which, again, sucks out the time and energy which could be better applied in clinical training.

So:

You can find an academically rigorous DNP program without work requirement which will allow you to choose your own clinicals (which will eliminate control of your hours spent there from school - after this you'll be able to work your tail off there doing as many hours as you can squeeze out of your life with preceptor understanding why you are doing that) and do as much time there as required.

Admission GPA is a good mark of academic rigor.

Or you can get a work experience as an RN first at a job where you can learn to think, not how to avoid cliques and smile nicely from 7A to 7P and then do as above but with better choice of programs and maybe with somewhat less load. But you have to choose your jobs wisely.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Feb 9, 2020

Are you set on Adult-Gero Primary Care? That can be quite limiting in my opinion for someone who has not worked as a nurse not because you have no nursing experience but because you haven't built a network of potential employers by being exposed to what's out there.

I used to live in Michigan and attended WSU's Adult ACNP program (Jan 2002 - Dec 2003). I find that in Michigan (as in other places as well), it can be important to have good "connections". Might I suggest FNP just for the range of ages you can care for?

I wouldn't be reliable for saying how the programs are now being that it's been so long ago when I was a student and my program was ACNP and wasn't a DNP. The ACNP program director arranges the clinical placements but students are allowed to pick their preferences based on their future goals for specialty. Every student in my class was working while we were in school. We had classrooms 2 days a week (typically 4-hour sessions).

For clinicals on my second year, I dropped to part time for work and picked up extra as needed (I worked in the ER). Clinicals depend on the schedule of the preceptor (12 hour shifts for ER and ICU, 8 hour shifts for the others). The range of locations are wide - we rotated in most Detroit hospitals and in suburban settings such as William Beaumont in Royal Oak and Oakwood in Dearborn.

A friend of mine was in the Adult Primary Care NP program at WSU when I was in school. They rotated at the University Primary Care Nursing Center at Detroit Receiving a lot (NP-run clinic). She had some in-patient rotations too because she asked for it and was allowed to have it by the program director...it was arranged for her. She never worked in primary care and in fact up to this day, the kind of jobs she took were Acute Care-ish.

I precepted ACNP students from both WSU and UofM Ann Arbor when I was an ICU NP at Henry Ford. The program directors sought me out and asked me if I'm willing to take on a student so they arranged those rotations for them. I didn't know the student I was getting prior to the specific semester I was going to spend precepting them.

rulajay · Feb 10, 2020

5 hours ago, juan de la cruz said:
Are you set on Adult-Gero Primary Care? That can be quite limiting in my opinion for someone who has not worked as a nurse not because you have no nursing experience but because you haven't built a network of potential employers by being exposed to what's out there.
I used to live in Michigan and attended WSU's Adult ACNP program (Jan 2002 - Dec 2003). I find that in Michigan (as in other places as well), it can be important to have good "connections". Might I suggest FNP just for the range of ages you can care for?
I wouldn't be reliable for saying how the programs are now being that it's been so long ago when I was a student and my program was ACNP and wasn't a DNP. The ACNP program director arranges the clinical placements but students are allowed to pick their preferences based on their future goals for specialty. Every student in my class was working while we were in school. We had classrooms 2 days a week (typically 4-hour sessions).
For clinicals on my second year, I dropped to part time for work and picked up extra as needed (I worked in the ER). Clinicals depend on the schedule of the preceptor (12 hour shifts for ER and ICU, 8 hour shifts for the others). The range of locations are wide - we rotated in most Detroit hospitals and in suburban settings such as William Beaumont in Royal Oak and Oakwood in Dearborn.
A friend of mine was in the Adult Primary Care NP program at WSU when I was in school. They rotated at the University Primary Care Nursing Center at Detroit Receiving a lot (NP-run clinic). She had some in-patient rotations too because she asked for it and was allowed to have it by the program director...it was arranged for her. She never worked in primary care and in fact up to this day, the kind of jobs she took were Acute Care-ish.
I precepted ACNP students from both WSU and UofM Ann Arbor when I was an ICU NP at Henry Ford. The program directors sought me out and asked me if I'm willing to take on a student so they arranged those rotations for them. I didn't know the student I was getting prior to the specific semester I was going to spend precepting them.

Thank you so much for your reply. I should've actually mentioned that i've worked in the medical field for the past 10 years, I have some experience but not as an RN. My work was mainly at an internal medicine practice that I currently manage, that being said, my management role is really geared towards preventive medicine and thats why i applied to (mostly) Adult Gero programs. Ive been accepted into WSU program as of a few days ago and from what youre saying, it does not seem that the program has changed much since 2002. They do have a work requirement of 40 hours a week and would really prefer me to be part time as opposed to full time in school and focus more on work. This is why I made the initial post to see how other programs in MI operate from a student themselves. We currently have 2 WSU NP students rotating in our clinic and they are very well trained and seem to love their program. Thank you for your insight.

7 hours ago, KatieMI said:
UofM Flint MSN. Classes online 1-4 times/week, clinicals minimum 24 (most students did more, up to 40) hours/week.
Average reading load through program was 500 pages/week. Most students studied Lange medical school series books independently.
Yes, full time bedside.
No real support in terms of clinical placement. They offered some positions but they all were in places no reasonable person would go (the innerest of inner city or hopelessly rural)
Some support in terms of waiting for clinicals (some students have to miss a semester for it). Those who did not survive first semester were all or almost all accepted into Ed or so-called "leadership".
18 months
Now:
To become a good NP clinician, one must master physical exam, clinical analytical thinking, time management, communication and critical thinking. These skills can be either:
1) brought up to certain level while working as an RN and then increased (QUITE a bit) while training for NP role;
Or
2) developed entirely during NP training.
Being a new grad BSN without heavy previous medical background means your level of above skills is pretty much baseline.
Full time working as an RN means over 1000 hours. However, how one spends those 1000 hours and what can be taught during them is a good question. There are tons of RN positions open for new grads where the opportunities to learn something useful for the future NP role simply do not exist. The new nurses there learn not how to think but how to "provide excellent customer service" in atmosphere of uninerrupted bullying and harrassment. As NP students, such nurses look pitiful.
DNP programs usually have slightly more "clinical hours" but their curriculums are notoriously known for being stuffed tight with useless nursing theory fluff which, even with clinical hours, doesn't really contribute to development of future clinicians. Plus, all DNP programs place heavy accent on "nursing research" (a subject entirely not known anywhere except for nursing itself), which, again, sucks out the time and energy which could be better applied in clinical training.
So:
You can find an academically rigorous DNP program without work requirement which will allow you to choose your own clinicals (which will eliminate control of your hours spent there from school - after this you'll be able to work your tail off there doing as many hours as you can squeeze out of your life with preceptor understanding why you are doing that) and do as much time there as required.
Admission GPA is a good mark of academic rigor.
Or you can get a work experience as an RN first at a job where you can learn to think, not how to avoid cliques and smile nicely from 7A to 7P and then do as above but with better choice of programs and maybe with somewhat less load. But you have to choose your jobs wisely.

Thank you for this reply! U of M flint is also on my list but the online aspect is not something im sure would work for me. I am a very visual learner and love to be in the classroom setting. But i do appreciate you answering all my questions so thoroughly.