LTC Nurse Haivng Problems with and EMT (super long!)

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I’m not really sure how I should handle this…or if I should just shut up and smile. :) Wednesday night, I worked night shift…not my normal shift (I am a pencil pusher with an office with a view), but I know the residents and the routine well and I still have pretty decent clinical judgment. Anyway…it was a wonderful shift and things were smooth sailing until 0430. One of our alert and oriented residents, who has a history of pathological fractures started screaming for help. Well…there she was on the floor. She denied pain, but is a very stoic lady. I can honestly see her chopping off her leg and rating her pain at a 2 or a 3…while smiling and patting the nurse on the hand and telling her how sweet she is. So…there are no real deformities, but her right arm just didn’t look right. No bruising, no swelling, nothing that looked like it shouldn’t look. We positioned her for comfort,made sure pulses were still there, and placed pillows to position (but not immobilize) the arm. I called the doctor (seven times before he picked up instead of the answering machine) and got orders to transfer to the 10 bed hospital across town. I called 911 and forty minutes (and two phone calls to dispatch) later, one EMT and a police officer showed up. I met the EMT at the door and gave report as we walked down the hall toward the resident’s room. I told the EMT that this resident is very fragile and that we handle her like eggshells because of her history of pathological fractures. The EMT said, ”Well, I think I know how to package a patient and I don’t even know what a patho-whatever fracture is.” I then said, she fractures really easily…and without known cause…she broke her wrist just picking up a water pitcher last year. The EMT rolled her eyes and sighed. She went into the resident’s room and asked me why I hadn’t put her back in bed. I again stated that she fractures very easily and because her arm didn’t look right that I didn’t want to move her without proper splinting. The EMT then informed me that she hadn’t brought any bandages in and that I needed to get her some Kling or something to immobilize her arm with. I could find any Kling, so I suggested using a pillowcase to splint. The EMT then informed me that pillowcases are not appropriate splints and that she would just splint her in the ‘bus.’ When I was in paramedic school, we learned to splint with all kinds of “inappropriate” things like pillowcases, magazines, duct tape, etc, so I said…”Oh…they taught us how in paramedic school.” She asked me if I am a paramedic and I admitted that I am. She informed me that I am “not a paramedic here, so it doesn’t count.” The EMT and the police officer then rolled the resident onto a sheet and lifted her onto the cot, letting her right arm flop to the side. I stepped up and tried to move her arm and the EMT held her arm up and told me to let her do her job…she then said, “I really don’t think there is anything wrong…you people call us all the time for nothing.” The EMT took her O2 off and the EMT and the police officer wheeled her out head first and with the cot flat, despite her extreme kyphosis. She resident had three fractures…one to her humerus, another to her ulna, and the last to the pelvis. The resident reported to me (when I took her glasses to the hospital) that the EMT was rude to her in the ambulance and that she told her that there was no way she was fractured because she had very little pain. So…my DON told me that she wants me to handle this one…I was there, I am a department head, and I have the EMS background to really know what was done wrong. They are a volunteer squad (and this EMT is their rescue captain and is married to the fire chief), so there is really no one above her to go to. Should I just call her and ask if we can talk or what?

I really feel like I should have been more assertive about it when the patient was still there...I dropped the ball there for sure. The patient didn't have any additional harm done, but the potential was certainly there. I just don't feel good about the way the thing played out, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

Interesting discussion so far. I'm interested in a different aspect of the issue: Why is your DON insisting that you deal with the issue?

You may or may not have run into this issue yourself as a paramedic, but I know I'd be setting myself up for disciplinary action if I called up a nurse in order to settle an incident. Normal procedure in all of my past agencies (volunteer or paid) would be to notify a supervisor of the incident and let it go from there.

I can't imagine a scenario where I would be told to just handle it myself. That doesn't seem very supportive. Even an EMS supervisor would have a chain of command to utilize when on-scene attempts fail to work out a disagreement. It must work a lot differently as a nurse.

I'm supposed to handle it because I am a department head...my DON is above me in the chain of command, but I'm still head of my department. If I can't settle the situation, the DON will go to bat for me.

The paramedic in me fully understands the EMTs frustration. It really sucks to drag out of bed for a call that is nonsense and I know that has happened at my LTC before...more than once. I really doubt that she would have been so snippy to a regular citizen though.

Specializes in EMS, ortho/post-op.

I don't think you did anything wrong, but I would have felt the same way you did - that there was *something* you should have done while in that situation. I'm not sure what exactly, but your patient shouldn't have had to put up with such immaturity on the part of the EMT. You sound like you know your stuff. I'm not a paramedic (yet!), but we were taught to splint with all sorts of "unorthodox" things in EMT school and pillows are definitely not so out of the ordinary! You were doing things right, that EMT was not. Write a formal complaint, file an incident report, talk to whomever you need to talk to, but DO SOMETHING. That EMT should not be practicing if that's the way she's going to behave. Her attitude was unprofessional and her patient care sucks. There is no reason to make the patient suffer unnecessarily and she did exactly that because she wanted to be in charge of the situation. Keep going up the proverbial ladder and find someone who will listen to your complaints. Your DON obviously heard you when you told her about this situation, keep her apprised of it and keep talking to people until something is done. Who cares that this EMT is married to the fire chief? That shouldn't exempt her from doing her job correctly. I hope you don't have any more run-ins with her. Keep taking good care of your patients!

Unless you have worked in long term care, I really dont think most nurses understand this attitude from EMTs and paramedics. I started out in a nursing home and I can honestly say I cannot remember a nice or respectful EMS crew. I later went to work in the ER and the attitude was much better even with the same crew members.

Years later I went to another rehab/longer term care facility about 100 miles away and guess what. The attitude was the same. I worked there about 3 years and only had 1 nice crew that came in--and they were only nice after my patient coded in the back of their ambulance after I told them he was in bad shape. It got to the point where I had to actually go in the room whenever patients were sent out because some of the other nurses were so scared and intimidated by EMS crew.

I honestly think it is an universal phenomenon. I know they get frustrated at some of the calls but I dont think they ultimately understand the staffing and capabilities of a nursing home.

But anyway of course not all EMS crews are like this but in my experience almost all have been. I would personally contact this EMT and explain to her that the patient did have fractures and you felt she was disrespectful.

OK, here's what should have happened. You as the pts advocate, the pts nurse and a Paramedic should have taken control of the scene! As a former Paramedic that has, in the past, treated LTC nurses with disdain I can now see where you are comin' from. I came from the ER, as a nurse, to LTC as a nursing supervisor and I am still shocked at nurses that will put pts on 02 via a non rebreather mask @6 liters. Now working in LTC I get attitude from EMS personell all the time, my attitude is usually "I've forgot more than you'll ever know, cotjockey.

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