ISU advising potential students to buy TCN study guides

[LadyinScrubs]

a potential student received info about phase ii--the isu challenge exam. note the info i have highlighted in red. isu is now advising potential students to buy tcn study guides. the study guides are nothing new and the same info is contained in the nursing textbooks for the subject of the challenge test as well as comprehensive study guides for the subject. even if you bought the newest nursing books and comprehensive study guides from amazon, you would pay less than $150 total. the tcn study guides offer the same info, and isu is advising students to buy the guides at a cost of $525+ each.

personally, i did buy both tcn study guides, and the amazon's nursing textbooks, comrehensive study guides. after i passed each exam the first time, i compared the info in the books and the study guides. i found that many of the test questions were never discussed in the tcn study guides.

the info, fortunately for me, was in the other books i bought . i speak from experience--do not waste your money buying the tcn study guides. i am at a loss why isu would advise its potential students to waste $2000+ buying the tcn study guides. based on the statement below, i do not believe isu is acting in its potential student's best interest. buyer beware................

phase ii: admission applications and nursing challenge exams (csms)

ø step 1: apply for and be granted admission to indiana state university: [color=#234786]http://www.indstate.edu/admissions/applications/transfer.htm

ø step 2: contact the college network academic support department at 800-634-1443 or by e-mail at [color=#234786][email protected] to order the nursing challenge exams/customized study module (csm), if you have not already done so.

ø step 3: complete the four nursing challenge/csms examinations for n106, n224, n328, and n330: [color=#234786]http://www.indstate.edu/nursing/pdfs/testing-program-docs/nursing-challenge-exam-instructions.pdf

ø step 4: take the test of essential academic skills (teas) exam: [color=#234786]http://www.indstate.edu/nursing/programs/testing/pre-admission-testing.htm

ø step 5: apply for admission to the college of nursing, health, and human services: [color=#234786]http://www.indstate.edu/lpn-bs/admission-criteria.htm

ø step 6: start looking for a registered nurse who is willing to serve as a preceptor for n304, your first clinical nursing course (you do not need a clinical site for this course). you should also start planning where you would like to complete the clinical components of the remaining clinical nursing courses, three (3) to six (6) months prior to the start of the clinical course. clinicals will be completed in the state where you reside, under the supervision of a preceptor at a local facility.

ø step 7: complete remaining general education and prerequisite courses (if applicable).

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

thanks for the info...anyone out there that has completed the lpn to bsn thru isu?

i would love to chat...

mtn top

you may not get too many responses on the student website. if they completed the program, they may not return to this site.

[Mtn top]

I just found all four modules on ebay for three hundred dollars

:-)

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

ladyinscrubs-

you stated you bought both isu modules for the four tests and other textbooks? you are an lpn going through isu? what textbooks did you purchase? thanks, mtn top

sorry, i did not see your post. when you are contemplating taking the challenge exams, you must contact the isu nursing department for info. the nursing dept will send you a letter explaining what is involved in taking the test; the paperwork a proctor must fill out; when and where to pay your testing fee(s); an outline of what is covered on the test; and a list of recommended textbooks.

the next information is important:

should you fail a test the first time, you will be required to enter into a contract with tcn and buy their $525 isu study guide(s). to take the failed test the 2nd time, you must provide isu a receipt from tcn that clearly shows you bought the corresponding study guide from tcn.

the upside of the expensive tcn study guide is if you fail, tcn has a pass guarantee. according to tcn they will hire a private tutor for you (this is something that is not normally discussed, but it was confirmed with tcn.)

should you buy a tcn study guide from any other source than tcn and fail a test on the first try, you will still need to purchase the appropriate tcn study guide for the exam and provide isu the receipt.

[Mtn top]

I am thinking positive and going to study my tookas off so hopefully I will pass and not fail... Thanks for all of your help.

Did you make it through?You mentioned you bought both the TCN materials and textbooks... Where are you in the process?

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

i am thinking positive and going to study my tookas off so hopefully i will pass and not fail... thanks for all of your help.

did you make it through?you mentioned you bought both the tcn materials and textbooks... where are you in the process?[/quote]

yes i passed all with good scores. did not have to repeat any. i am in the program. i found that the lippincott condensed studyguides did follow the objectives for the challenge tests. i also read my nursing textbooks and the tcn guides (which was similar to the lippincott books; the lippincott books had more extentive info).

[Mtn top]

So where are you in your studies? Still with ISU?

Mtn top

[Care2Heal]

you are right. the nursing dept should send you a list of textbooks for the exam (see you don't need the expensive tcn study guides) and a list of objectives. you can go through the objectives, and answer them from the nursing textbook. this will help you with the exam. get a comprehensive nclex study guide that has lots of questions and rationales. the questions and rationales in the nclex book will help you understand the question.

you may want to buy lippincott's a's in mental health. it is a comprehensive book for the subject. they have a comprehensive study guide book for each of the tests. they are fairly inexpensive and you can buy them used. i found the books very useful.

there are many of us from the lpn/lvn distant learning program at indiana state. we can answer some questions, but it is isu who can provide the definitive answers. if you post your question on the isu site, you may get more response. there is also a calif isu lvn to bsn site.

btw, if you respond or post 15 messages, you can start sending private messages...hint, hint.

hi ladyinscrubs, thanks for all you direct posts, i am finding them very insightful :-) where is the california isu lvn to bsn site....here on allnurses.com?

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

Hi LadyinScrubs, thanks for all you direct posts, I am finding them very insightful :-) Where is the California ISU LVN to BSN site....here on allnurses.com?

Yes, there are various sites for the Lpn to Bsn ISU program...many contain the same info. However, the Calif program is different from the rest of the states. The Calif BON requires that only one cliical be offered per semester. Meaning that other students in other states could matriculate through the program faster. However, we in CA have nothing to do with the clinical placement. We can gather info and make recommendations, but it is the ISU person (who is also an TCN employee) will do the contact, obtain the contract, and place CA students. That means that ISU is on the hook to provide clinical sites.

Another difference is that the program in CA is mandated that ISU link with a CA university. That means that the collaboration with ISU is Calif State University Sanoma (aka Sanoma State). It is Sanoma who monitors our clinical and didactic units/hours--through this ISU/TCN employee but ISU is the university who issues our degree. Because Sanoma State is in Calif, we automatically are eligible for a Calif license once we pass the NCLEX.

I started the Calif Allnurses blog because there are some differences in the Calif program vs. the rest of the states. However, in the lecture classes, it is not unusual to have non-Calif students in those classes. The clincial classes have only CA students.

Questions, feel free to contact me. The more questions I can answer about the Calif program the less questions asked of the Calif ISU liaision--who does everything (placing students in clinicals, monitoring paperwork and hours/units, as well as handling questoins.) If she has less questions to answer from non students, that means that she can concentrate on the students.

[Care2Heal]

Again you never fail LadyinScrubs!

Is this the ISU website with requirements you are referring to for LVN to BSN for Calif?:

http://www.indstate.edu/degreelink/lpntobs/lpnbscourses.html#phase1

I was hoping to do all the pre-req'ts thru places like "Instacert" or places like them, as I learn the most thru this type of interaction.

I was also told by the TCN rep that ISU will accept the following subjects w/o Labs:

A & P

Micro

Chem

Biology

So I would take these with them, cz I might even need to use their tutor ;-}

I have no gen eds; do you think this program is do-able in 3yrs if one applies themselves? How long does each module take (one working, no babies, family Hubby and college age kids)?

How long has it taken you for each module, do you anticipate to finish in the 3yrs?

How much is the ISU portion? If you meet the requirements they don't make you wait?

Does one need to pass ATI's at the end? Or do you go straight from your clinicals to NCLEX-RN? no CPNE(final clinical exam, other than individual clinical modules as you go along)?

Will they accept my TEAS of 2010?

What does ISU mean by Non-Native Language? (see their wrk sheet, there seem to be more courses on this sheet then on the link above for ISU???)

http://www.indstate.edu/bacc-comp-nsg/pdfs/advising-worksheets/advising-worksheet-lpn-bs.pdf

Sorry for all the questions, sad that the students are more straight forward and forthright...we need to do the best we can in this awful recession $$$

Thank You!

[Care2Heal]

Can you send me a copy-paste link to the Calif Blog(s) you are referring to... I can not seem to find them....thk you Ladyin Scrubs :)

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

is this the isu website with requirements you are referring to for lvn to bsn for calif?:

http://www.indstate.edu/degreelink/lpntobs/lpnbscourses.html#phase1

yes, i have posted the info below.

i was hoping to do all the pre-req'ts thru places like "instacert" or places like them, as i learn the most thru this type of interaction. sorry, have no info about this; i did my prerequisites at a local community college and as part of another degree.

i was also told by the tcn rep that isu will accept the following subjects w/o labs:

a & p

micro

chem

biology

so i would take these with them, cz i might even need to use their tutor ;-}

yes, these classes are classes that have a lab component.

i have no gen eds; do you think this program is do-able in 3yrs if one applies themselves? how long does each module take (one working, no babies, family hubby and college age kids)?

before you can enter the lvn to bsn program you must qualify--meaning you must have the prerequisites. if you take them at a community college and get some degree..i think i got another aa degree in liberal arts--then you can transfer directly into the university and do not have to take extra gen ed classes--other than some that are specific to the university (i.e., diversity classes).

how long has it taken you for each module, do you anticipate to finish in the 3yrs?

sorry, i can't give you any info on this. when i went back to the comm college for my nursing prerequisites to transfer into the nursing program, i went full time took: english 1,2,3; biology, algebra, chemistry, a&p, microbiology, sociology, anthropology and then got my lib arts degree with those classes. it took me about 2 years full time to get through all those classes because i did not have them before or in high school. it may take you less time. plus community colleges have on line classes as well as accelerated classes (about 8-9 weeks so one can take 2 classes in 20 weeks). how long it takes is up to you...but time is going to go by either way whether you take classes or not.

for the 4 challenge exams, i started studying jan 2009 [every day as i was not working] and it took me about 3-4 weeks each exam (including the testing). i had all the exams done by the april 2009 deadline and was accepted into the fall 2009 program. i waited until sprig 2010 to start.

how much is the isu portion? how much? as how much $'s per unit. go to the university's website because they cost changes each semester, i.e., goes up. if you meet the requirements they don't make you wait? from what i hear, there is no wait. you have to wait after you pass the challenge courses for the next class. however, that may change as more people realize the program isu offers and apply.

does one need to pass ati's at the end? you will need to take the ati assessment test as part of the stuff they require you to do before you can apply to the program.

or do you go straight from your clinicals to nclex-rn? isu (like many nursing programs) is requiring ati tests during each semester's courses. for instance: n226 is mental health. one had to pass the ati portion of mental health. if you pass the first time, you got 30 points--points go down every time you try and do not pass. these points are averaged into your grade for the class. oh, the first semester in the transition class--you have to shell out about $350 for the entire ati study course. cost is fair as you will use it through out the program and will test each semester.

no cpne(final clinical exam, other than individual clinical modules as you go along)? cpne -- you are attending isu not excelsior. in the isu program you must do the lecture and clinical together, pass the ati exam for each course, and get a passing grades in all the classes. that is all. no huge weekend test...just the nclex. by the time you have studied for the final ati comprehensive exam at the end of the course, you should be ready to take the nclex without delay. essentially, the nursing schools are requiring the ati exams to raise student nclex scores and to make sure they pass the first time.

will they accept my teas of 2010? as them becuase they know what scores they want on the specific parts. i took mine a few years ago and had ati submit my teas exam score to isu.

what does isu mean by non-native language? (see their wrk sheet, there seem to be more courses on this sheet then on the link above for isu???)

http://www.indstate.edu/bacc-comp-nsg/pdfs/advising-worksheets/advising-worksheet-lpn-bs.pdf

this means you have taken a foreign language that is different from your native language.

sorry for all the questions, sad that the students are more straight forward and forthright...we need to do the best we can in this awful recession $$$

i wish i could give you good news. this is the info i know and this is all i know. as to the way the recession (aka depression) is going and whether there will be jobs in the near future...i have no crystal ball. i know that nursing runs in cycles. after viet nam there was a glut of nurses and nurses went to other professions. twenty years later in the 1990s, there were no enough nurses and made worse by those nurses who were approaching retirement age. what no one factored in was the recession/depression. post 90s, the schools cranked up grads and rns who were to retire did not because they lost money in the stock market crash and hubby may be out of work. so, we have a glut again. this means the companies can be picky. to get a good job you must have the education and may have to be creative. try to avoid, if you can, any student loans.

btw, if you do not have an existing bachelors, you will get a pell grant/fee waver. this helps. i do not qualify and am financing my education via my check book. i believe i have to pay $3,000 by jan 5th. oh, joy.

nursing (lpn/lvn to bs)

[color=#0b4094]bachelor degree-completion program

phase i: foundational studies

phase ii: nursing prerequisites

phase iii: baccalaureate nursing

courses

the lpn/lvn to bs program consists of three phases. phase i and ii must be completed prior to beginning phase iii. specific courses and credit required may vary, depending on coursework transferred.

[color=#0b4094]phase i: foundational studies (lower division)—31 credits courses in this phase are offered on-line by ivy tech community college. or, students may complete this phase via on-campus study or (if applicable) transfer credit earned from an associate or bachelor degree. students also may complete phase i by successfully passing end of course equivalency examinations such as clep, dsst, and excelsior college examinations. comprehensive learning modules (study guides) provided by the college network help students prepare for and successfully complete these examinations.

bio 274/l introductory microbiology and laboratory bio 274/l introductory microbiology and laboratory—3 credits.

the study of the structure and physiology of microorganisms and their relation to health, sanitation, agriculture, and industry. a general course for students majoring in areas other than life sciences.

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chem 101/l chemistry: reactions and reasons and laboratory (or higher level chemistry course and laboratory) chem 101/l chemistry: reactions and reasons and laboratory—4 credits.

this course enhances scientific literacy by providing a basic understanding of scientific principles with an emphasis on chemistry and biochemistry as well as their application to current topics. these topics may include atmospheric ozone depletion, water pollution, nutrition, pharmaceuticals, and others. co-requisites chem 100l or consent of instructor.

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comm 101 introduction to speech communication comm 101 introduction to speech communication—3 credits.

basic principles and practices of oral communication.

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eng 101 freshman writing i eng 101 freshman writing i—3 credits.

writing expository and argumentative essays based on personal experience and readings.

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eng 105 freshman writing ii eng 105 freshman writing ii—3 credits.

writing documented papers synthesizing information from several different sources, with emphasis on reading and writing as processes of discovery in thinking critically.

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math 102 quantitative literacy math 102 quantitative literacy—3 credits.

interpret formulas, graphs, and tables to draw inferences from them. represent mathematical information symbolically, visually, numerically, and verbally. use arithmetic, algebraic, geometric, statistical, and financial computational methods to solve problems. determine reasonableness of answers and select optimal results. recognize mathematical and statistical limits of methods.

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psy 101 general psychology: understanding human behavior psy 101 general psychology: understanding human behavior—3 credits.

a selective study of how heredity and the environment affect human thought, emotion, and actions. the course focuses on the scientific study of human and non-human animal behavior, and the topics of how humans respond and adapt to change, the nature and limits of memory, the development of human beliefs, the impact of social influences on human behavior, the contribution of genetics to individual differences, the nature of psychological illnesses, and more. the course emphasizes "thinking psychologically" as it applies to everyday life.

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one of the following:

cs 101 information technology literacy cs 101 information technology literacy—3 credits.

covers the core competencies in three areas: information technology basics, hardware/software, and information retrieval and evaluation. provides students with the basic information management skills necessary to function in an electronic academic environment.

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nurs 108 information technology literacy for healthcare nurs 108 information technology literacy for healthcare—3 credits.

this course serves as an introduction to the use of computers and the use of information in healthcare. students will learn basic skills of how to use computer applications and networks at isu and how to retrieve, evaluate, and present information.

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one of the following:

attr 210/l human anatomy for allied health professions and laboratory attr 210 human anatomy for allied health professions and laboratory—3 credits.

the study of human tissues, organs, and systems and how they relate to concepts in physical medicine, physical activity, and health.

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bio 231/l human anatomy and laboratory bio 231/l human anatomy and laboratory—3 credits.

the skeletal, muscular, nervous, circulatory, respiratory, excretory, digestive, reproductive, and endocrine systems of human beings are studied in relation to their anatomy and histology.

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one of the following:

pe 220/l human physiology for allied health professions and laboratory pe 220/l human physiology for allied health professions and laboratory—3 credits.

human physiological systems will be studied as they relate to normal body functioning at rest and during exercise.

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bio 241/l human physiology and laboratory bio 241/l human physiology and laboratory—3 credits.

the skeletal, muscular, nervous, circulatory, respiratory, excretory, digestive, reproductive, and endocrine systems of human beings are studied in relation to their physiology.

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[color=#0b4094]phase ii: nursing prerequisites—15 credits courses in this phase can be satisfied entirely by isu departmental challenge exams (credit by examination). admittance to indiana state university is required to proceed with phase ii. the four departmental credit by exams (csms) are a requirement of the lpn/lvn to bs nursing application.

nurs 106 mental health aspects of nursing practice nurs 106 mental health aspects of nursing practice—2 credits

the second preprofessional course focuses on the communicator role of the professional nurse. therapeutic communication techniques, interpersonal skills, and mental health concepts are emphasized.

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nurs 224 nursing care of adults i nurs 224 nursing care of adults i—5 credits

roles of the nurse providing care to adults and older adults in hospital and community settings are introduced. application of critical thinking and clinical judgment skills to promote optimal health and provide care to clients experiencing or recovering from illness is emphasized.

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nurs 328 nursing care of the child and family nurs 328 nursing care of the child and family—4 credits

critical thinking and clinical judgment are used to assist children and their families in the promotion and maintenance of health and the prevention of and/or recovery from illness in hospital and community settings.

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nurs 330 nursing care of the childbearing family nurs 330 nursing care of the childbearing family—4 credits

the course focuses on understanding and performing nursing clinical judgments for women and infants during the reproductive life cycle. clinical experiences will provide opportunities to observe and provide professional nursing care in primary, community, and acute health care settings.

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[color=#0b4094]phase iii: baccalaureate-level nursing courses nursing courses in this phase are offered on-line by indiana state university. clinicals are arranged in the student's community. foundational studies requirements can be fulfilled by a combination of coursework earned through the university's distance learning program, the indiana college network, and the student's local college or university.

nursing courses

nurs 208 transition from l.p.n. to b.s.n. nurs 208 transition from l.p.n. to b.s.n.—3 credits.

an introduction for the licensed practical nurse to the role of the baccalaureate-prepared nurse. prerequisites: l.p.n. license. pre- or co-requisite enrollment in cognate courses required for the first year of the baccalaureate degree nursing program.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 226 nursing in mental illness nurs 226 nursing in mental illness—3 credits.

nursing care of individuals experiencing mental illness is emphasized. major theoretical principles governing the practice of psychiatric nursing are applied to patient care in structured settings. prerequisites: nurs 106, 200, 204; pre- or co-requisite nurs 228.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 304 comprehensive health assessment for nursing practice nurs 304 comprehensive health assessment for nursing practice——4 credits.

comprehensive health assessment skills are applied to nursing practice with clients throughout the life span. prerequisites: pre- or co-requisite nurs 208 or nurs 300.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 318 nursing care of families in stress and crisis nurs 318 nursing care of families in stress and crisis—3 credits.

the role of the professional nurse in providing therapeutic nursing interventions for families experiencing significant life changes is emphasized. prerequisites: nurs 226; or pre- or co-requisite nurs 300 or consent of instructor.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 322 research/theoretical basis for nursing practice nurs 322 research/theoretical basis for nursing practice—3 credits.

the course focuses on examination and application of clinical scholarship through evidenced based practice. emphasis is on skills for research applied to clinical practice. prerequisites: nurs 224, 226, 228, or consent of instructor; pre- or co-requisites epsy 302 or health, safety, and hlth 340.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 324 nursing care of adults ii nurs 324 nursing care of adults ii—5 credits.

expanded roles of the nurse are performed in hospital and community settings for adults and older adults. expanded critical thinking and clinical judgment skills are applied to promote health and provide care for clients experiencing or recovering from complex illnesses. prerequisites: nurs 224, 228, and bio 412.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 424 nursing care of adults iii nurs 424 nursing care of adults iii—5 credits.

the course focuses on the nursing care of individuals with high intensity multi-system dysfunction in specialized institutional and community settings. the interpretation, analysis, and synthesis of the physical parameters and laboratory findings of the individual's patho-physiological status are emphasized. prerequisites: nurs 322, 324; and bio 412.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 450 population-focused community health nursing nurs 450 population-focused community health nursing—6 credits.

the focus of this course is the professional nurse's role in working with aggregates in the community. prerequisites: nurs 318, 322, 324, 328, 330; or 300, 304, 318, 322.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 470 nursing leadership nurs 470 nursing leadership—3 credits.

emphasis is placed on examining leadership and management roles. factors that influence quality of care delivery are examined. prerequisites: concurrent enrollment in nurs 484 or 486, or consent of instructor.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 484 reflective nursing practice nurs 484 reflective nursing practice—3 credits.

this clinical concentration course provides opportunity for synthesis and evaluation of professional nursing role behaviors essential to care of clients experiencing complex care needs in a variety of settings. prerequisites: nurs 424, 450, or 450 only if enrolled in baccalaureate track for registered nurses; pre- or co-requisite nurs 470.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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nurs 486 professional nursing synthesis nurs 486 professional nursing synthesis—3 credits.

this course integrates, synthesizes, and reflects on issues of professionalism, professional goals, and professional nursing practice informed through multiple ways of knowing, and experiences grounded in historical, literary, artistic, scientific, and technological perspectives. issues relevant to contemporary nursing practice and current healthcare trends are explored. prerequisites: nurs 424 and 450 for pre-licensure students; nurs 450 for r.n./b.s. in nursing students; nurs 470 and 484 must be taken prior to or concurrently with nurs 486. note: three classroom hours per week. foundational studies credit: fs 2010: integrative upper-division electives

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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biology course

bio 412 pathophysiology bio 412 pathophysiology—3 credits.

acquaints the student with pathological deviations from the normal physiological activities of the major systems of the human organism. immunological and genetic aspects of diseases will be included. majors take the course for 2 hours. prerequisites: bio 241 and 274, or equivalents.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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sociology course

soc 101 introduction to sociology soc 101 introduction to sociology—3 credits.

this course introduces the discipline of sociology by examining its history, the work of its early and contemporary contributors, essential concepts, research methods, theory, and applications.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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one of the following:

psy 266 developmental psychology psy 266 developmental psychology—3 credits.

an overview of the full life span of human development, with comprehensive coverage of basic developmental concepts and principles. research methods and application of research findings will be discussed.

delivery: on-campus. an equivalent course is offered on-line by ivy tech community college.

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epsy 221 developmental psychology epsy 221 developmental psychology—3 credits.

an overview of human development from conception to death. analysis of research and application of findings to further understandings of physiological and psychological factors affecting individuals' development and adjustment throughout life are emphasized.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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one of the following:

epsy 302 introduction to applied psychological statistics epsy 302 introduction to applied psychological statistics—3 credits.

the organization and presentation of data, measures of central tendency and variability, correlation and probability, and statistical inference including simple analysis of variance. prerequisites: math 111 or equivalent.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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hlth 340 health biostatistics hlth 340 health biostatistics—3 credits.

introduction to statistical methods as applied to the study of health and safety risk evaluation; census and vital data; human mortality, morbidity, and natality. topics include measures of central tendency, variability, display of data, selected sampling distributions probability, hypothesis testing, correlation, and regression.

delivery: internet; on-campus visits not required

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foundational studies

• eng 305 advanced expository writing—3 credits
  
• pe 101/l fitness for life and laboratory—2 credits
  
• elective and foundational studies courses needed to achieve the 124 minimum credits required for graduation.
  

[LadyinScrubs, ASN, RN]

Can you send me a copy-paste link to the Calif Blog(s) you are referring to... I can not seem to find them....thk you Ladyin Scrubs :)

Go to the distant learning site at All Nurses and check to see what is there. Many Calif nurses just post their blogs in the regular ISU DL sites--there are a few depending on the last time someone posted.