Shakeup of nurse education.

princenina · Sep 25, 2007

I cant believe we are going down this path again. For years it was very tough for hospital trained nurses to compete professionally without doing a bridging degree... not always an economic or geographic option without trying to deal with rosters etc.

As we get to the end of our careers and the "problem" is solved by natural attrition why start all over again.

Do you think perhaps Mr Abbott has realized the cost of staffing institutions at safe levels and wants to return to the bad old days of 1 R.N and 6 students in a 40 bed ward. It all sounds more about economics than patient care to me. I am proud to have been a hospital trained nurse but would not like to see a return to the days of minimal clinical support where students were little more than slave labor for over worked and stressed R.Ns.

My generation fought a bitter battle to have nurses trained and remunerated in a way which reflected their responsibilities.. dont give it all away now.

Levin · Sep 26, 2007

Found something official on all this.

Documents from the Ministry of Health and the Prime Ministers office.

http://www.pm.gov.au/media/Release/2007/Media_Release24555.cfm

Cliff Notes:

I am pleased to announce that the Australian Government will invest about $170 million additional funds over five years to create 25 Australian Hospital Nursing Schools to deliver hospital based training within major public and private hospitals across the country for enrolled nurses.

So now it's changed again, public hospitals can get it too.

The establishment of the Australian Hospital Nursing Schools is a significant health and education reform which will reinstate the best of hospital-based training where nurses learn on the job.

Because clinical placements and grad years didn't exist before today.

Students will receive practical, clinically-focussed education and nationally recognised qualifications at diploma or advanced diploma level.
There would also be the opportunity for these enrolled nurses to later upgrade their skills to a registered nurse level.

I guess like TAFE provides now.

Selected hospitals will receive infrastructure funding from the Australian Government for educational facilities to be developed onsite. Funding will also be available for up to four clinical training staff at participating hospitals.

Free Golden Staph with every lecture session

Seriously why does paper and pencil stuff have do be done in a hospital, does it endow it with some kind of sacred halo or something?

Current traineeships, you do your work at the age care and your study at the TAFE.

The first intake of students is expected to commence in 2008, with more than 500 additional enrolled nurses undertaking training annually once the measure is fully implemented.

My reading of that is only 500 additional students a year AFTER the first five years. Across the entire country :eek:

Additional Source Material: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/Content/work-nurse-schools-fact

Participating hospitals will pay trainees' salaries until they achieve their qualifications. The Australian Government will provide wage subsidies to hospital nursing schools for each student for the first 3 months of $500 per week to assist the schools to provide their students with a wage.

I suspect a few private hospitals with a VERY high failure rate at the 3 months point. Not all, some are decent and well run, but pity the poor students at the ones who aren't.

The Australian Government will also pay the hospital nursing schools a $1,500 commencement bonus and $2,500 completion bonus for each student.

Then I sure hope the testing is done by an independant body.

The Australian Government will directly pay each student a tax-free bonus of $2,000 once they have successfully completed their first 6 months of the course, and a further tax-free bonus of $3,000 when they have successfully completed the course. These payments, costing almost $20 million over 5 years, will ensure that in addition to receiving high quality nursing training, students will be provided with an incentive to undertake their training through a hospital nursing school.

Well I'm not going to rag on that aspect of it, 5,000 dollars is a nice handout They should try it in TAFE and Uni as well

.

(Emphasis mine)
This new initiative recognises the need for more nurses in our health system and will assist both public and private hospitals by providing additional nurse training opportunities.

Annual new places after first 5 years(best light) 500 per year assuming 100% retention.

This recognises NO SUCH THING. :angryfire

From the health ministries OWN website.

Over the next decade, the number of nurses required by the Australian health care sector as a whole will increase by around 7.1 per cent each year. This includes employment growth of 1.7 per cent a year, retirements of 2.6 per cent a year and industry departures of 2.8 per cent a year. As a consequence, the Australian health care sector will require over 13 000 new registered nurses each year over the next decade. In 2002-03, on the other hand, only 8500 students commenced registered nurse training and only 4500 students completed training.

Source: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/Content/health-investinginagedcare-summary-5-5-3.htm

Well now we will have at best 5000 after 5 years.

Why do I feel this is tinkering around the edges?

Regards,

Levin

AdelaideChic · Sep 26, 2007

In my opinion, the government would be better off by rewarding those of us who complete our program. People that go on the HECS/HELP system, start a qualification, don't finish it and don't earn enough to pay it back or work overseas are thus not paying for any of their debt.

I think a system where your degree cost is (for example) halved would mean more people would be inclined to finish it, or even say a financial bonus or tax cut for finishing. Perhaps also there should be a reward for actually using the nursing degree? A few of my friends qualified, but took up different work or become mothers, which meant that their qualifications are temporarily useless, again likely meaning they are not paying back their debt.

I don't much mind whether nurses are hospital or uni trained. I was uni trained, as i had to be to gain the qualification at the time. Placements/work experiences/free labour sucks because it means a drop of income, leaving (or using your holidays anyway) of paid income, to become another pair of hands. I was lucky and had great placements where I learnt heaps, but not everything is that lucky, not everyone enjoys the experience (not necessarily because of the nursing, but perhaps staff, other commitments, etc.).

I would be somewhat bitter if people got paid to earn the same degree that I now have, without the HECS debt that I had.

veritas · Sep 27, 2007

Hi all,
Veritas I would love some clarification on the above statement. I am one of the old hospital trained nurses, who is just starting to do some work with uni students as a facilitator. I have only worked with one uni so far, have had nothing to do with UofQld yet. But you have my curiosity piqued. What problems are they causing?

the entire explanation is VERY long. but the shortest way i can explain is this: uni students don't "train" in hospitals for free. someone is funding that "training". as UQ is very heavily funded by the government due to their pulling power (due to research-heavy faculties), UQ gets preferred placements in whatever hospitals they choose for training. when they graduate, UQ students are NOT preferred employees. But while they are under the UQ umbrella, they are "preferred" trainees. therfore, UQ gets pick of placements. this is causing a HUGE problem with other unis that also have student nurses to be placed in the hospitals. becoz hospitals are all desparate to affiliate themselves with the "top" uni of QLD, which is UQ, they will drop other unis in order to make places for UQ students. this has happened many times since UQ started their nursing program. other unis are told their places are dropped from certain hospitals at certain times becoz the UQ people have been placed instead. UQ does try to reduce their "stealing" of other uni's placement places, but it is still evident when other unis are told a few weeks before placement that their places are dropped becoz they need to accomodate UQ.

Grace Oz · Sep 27, 2007

We never had these problems with hospital based training! :rolleyes:

While I agree and TOTALLY understand there were inherant problems with the hospital training system, I'm of the firm belief that overall it worked quite well, people earned a wage, (albeit a paltry one! But, it WAS money with which to scrape by on!). We lived in nurses quarters and therefore the accommodation was cheap and reasonable.

There was usually always someone to chew the fat over with. Share your problems, concerns etc etc. Always someone to share your good and bad experiences with. We didn't have, nor need, counsellors then. We had each other! It mostly worked well.

I could go on and on about the positives for hospital based training. I could also wax lyrical about the benefits, in some aspects, of tertiary education for nurses. But, I'm not going to.

I was around when tertiary education was first proposed and ultimately introduced. I saw how as a direct result of this, nursing changed, forever. And, I might add, not necessarily for the better!

I don't know what the magic solution is. What is really the absolute best way to go for the future of nursing training.

What I do know is; I believe training in a hospital, under the apprenticeship system, worked ok for me and, most of, my former, colleagues. We were/are excellent nurses. We studied hard and also learned a lot by practical experience at the coalface. And I have to say, nothing beats practical experience! Nothing! you can read about everything and anything in a book and in lectures. However, when it comes to applying theory into practise, if you've never been afforded the opportunity to do so, you'll never adequately be able to. JMHO.

Anyway, as I said, I could go on and on and on and on.......

Maybe the best solution is a compromise between the two.

Perhaps that's what our erstwhile government is trying to accomplish? I don't know. But, clearly, the current system is not achieving it's end.

IOW; educated, trained and qualified nurses for now and into the future.

I do know they can't keep on asking us "oldies" to return from retirement! :)