Interesting PhD fine print

[422jdb]

First of all, I am a male. And, I am not trying to start WW3 with this comment because I am not sexist or racist. I am considering getting my PhD so I can teach. I have been surprised at a few faculty job listings I have read which say "Women and minorities encouraged to apply." On the flip side, I have seen a few that say "Men and minorities encouraged to apply." My thought is that if women make up 90 some percent of faculty, why would they encourage more to apply? I was very disappointed to see that comment in this school's posting because I like that school. Personally, I think comments like that, whether they are encouraging males or females or minorities, should be left out. There is always some difference among candidates for anything and I don't like preferences. There are certain things where being a male benefits me and I don't think it should and vice versa. I'd just prefer being chosen on my qualifications, not other things.

If you are going to excoriate me, please be gentle :uhoh21:

[Thunderwolf, MSN, RN]

You stated your point very well. I too am considering the option, possibly next year, in returning back for a Doctorate--> for teaching. Yes, I could do it now, but I also like being that student too. And I agree, the job posting doesn't make any sense as it is stated.

My best out to you regarding your decisions.

[422jdb]

Thanks. I should add too with the changing demographics of this country that what I am complaining about is something that could someday benefit me or my kids. So anyways, my two cents.

[llg, PhD, RN]

I don't blame you for feeling the way you do ... but I think the reality of the situation is not as bad as it seems.

Within most universities (and in science departments in particular), there is a serious lack of women faculty members. The university as a whole probably includes that statement on all ads in an effort to attract women and minorities because they need to boost their recruitment of those groups. Women ARE under-represented on most faculties and in many PhD programs as students.

However ... within departments of nursing, men are the minority. People know that -- and I doubt you would face the level of discrimination suggested by the ad. In fact, some nursing schools actively recruit men and give them a preference.

[422jdb]

I agree with you. I'm not necessarily worried about being discriminated against, especially since in terms of gender, I would be considered a minority applicant. But that is also why I said that I don't like it even though it would benefit me in many universities.

For years, men did not go into nursing in any significant number and even less so to teach nursing. I do not think that the women who graduated in that time frame lost out on any enhancement of the quality of their education because men were not teaching. Some may disagree, but that is how I feel.

I feel that most of the recruitment that is done to make occupations more reflective of the population doesn't work. For example, on the news last night, they showed a video of a cop who happened to be black repeatedly hitting a resisting suspect who also happened to be black. The video is ugly - it looks like the cop overreacted. But it makes my point - that population-based recruiting for positions is not a panacea for all ills.

And I reiterate, I'm saying that as someone who could benefit, in most cases, when I apply for a faculty position. Can't we just treat people as equals?

[SteveNNP, MSN, NP]

It is probably a generic tag they apply to every position to cover the corporation against antidiscrimination lawsuits. Ironically, in doing that they technically exclude men.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Actually, the problems caused by the small numbers of women on college faculty have been thoroughly studied and it is generally accepted that the male domination has caused some problems. (When your workforce consists of scholars, they study themselves a lot.)

There is legitimate concern about universities not having employment policies that are as "family friendly" as many industries (e.g. tenure requirements) ... not being pro-active in preventing sexual harassment or punishing it when it is found ... not providing female role models, mentors, or advisors to female students, etc. Women entering tenure track face very different issues than men -- and not having women faculty members who can advise graduate students on those issues means that the university provides a lower quality of education to its female students.

Really. I'm not making this up. It has been well-studied. The relative lack of women on many university faculties is a real problem that experts take very seriously.

[422jdb]

Fair enough, but keep in mind my example was only referring to nursing faculties. I would hope that when I apply for a faculty position that I am considered on my merits only.

[Pat_Pat RN]

I understand where you are coming from.

But I think the fact that we are merely having this conversation is ridiculous. All jobs should be awarded based on merit, not discrimination. Really isn't that what "quotas" and "anti-discrimination laws" really promote? Reverse discrimination?

[llg, PhD, RN]

Fair enough, but keep in mind my example was only referring to nursing faculties. I would hope that when I apply for a faculty position that I am considered on my merits only.

I strongly believe you will be. In my experience with nursing academia (not extensive, but I have had an insider's view of 3 different universities) is that men are very welcomed both in graduate school and as faculty members.