They didn't make it :(

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · May 21, 2004

i'm at a lost regarding this whole situation. everyone had to have taken algebra at the every least in college/uni right? so if this type of quiz were given before, why in the world didn't everyone get-out their old algebra textbooks & do some practice test questions?

on the other hand, if none of the type of algebra questions on this last quiz were on any of the previous quiz, then perhaps your friends my have a strong chance to win an appeal. the only thing about that is, if they were made to stop going to class(es)/clinicals cause of this quiz, they'll have to wait to pick-up where they left off next year cuz too much time have gone passed.

again, as stated above, i'm sorry for your friends situation! unfortunately, it sounds like you all were caught unprepared for something that you all should be able to perform/do...at the very least...on a basic level. nursing degrees/diploma are hard to come-by but well earned & something as simple as mathematics shouldn't be taken for granted. everything taught to you in a previous pre-req course could very easily be fair game! a lot that is taught in nursing courses do often fall-back on these subjects. for example, a&p, microbiology, biology, algebra, nutrition, & yes....even chemistry you'll see again especially in your critical care course....these will come into play in regards to system failures & how to keep that from progressing. that's why when taking these pre-req courses, one is suppose to learn & retain whatever was taught in them & not take for granted that they won't show-up in the nursing courses. the same holds true regarding what is being taught in early nursing courses. much of what is taught in nsg fund will be needed throughout the course of the nursing program & just cuz one passed that subject doesn't mean that they can forget what was in it cuz they have bigger & better subjects to study now.

perhaps some good can come out of this for you, your other classmates, & those unfortunate dear friends that were dismissed from the program. learn from their mistake(s) so that you all can be successful.

good luck ~ cheers!

moe

camrn · May 22, 2004

Tony: I'm curious, are you in an ADN program?

Tony35NYC · May 22, 2004

Tony: I'm curious, are you in an ADN program?

Cam,

I'm doing a BSN. I 'm not sure where Moe is going with this, but I sense that I'm being spoken down to and scolded because I commented about the increased difficulty of the math exams. I think the point was missed entirely. This is not about people being unable to retain nursing fundamentals because we're all well beyond that point. Prior to this, the nursing math exams were 100% dosage questions. Now, approximately half of them are traditional college algebra questions, and the level of difficulty of those algebra questions is on the high side. As I said before, this level of math is WAY above and beyond any type of dosage calculation any nurse will ever do. Its total overkill for nursing school. Its easy to say we should have pulled out our old algebra textbooks and review. But, review what? How would we know what algebra topics we'd be tested on? Mid-level algebra we all could have pulled without any type of review, but the sh*t we got was hard.

I feel happy for Moe that he so perfectly retains everything he learns. Most of the rest of us are not that good and sometimes we just forget certain things, especially abstract mathematical formulas. We're training to become nurses, not actuaries; and in my opinion, a successful career in nursing has nothing to do with one's ability to set up and solve a lengthy algebraic equation in less than a minute and twenty seconds.

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · May 22, 2004

i read & took your original post as wanting some support for your classmates for a math calculation quiz they failed in which ultimately resulted in their program dismissal. i only addressed what i saw might have been the problem for them. i gave some suggestions/advice cuz it seemed you were asking. i'm sorry that my responses were taken out of context as me looking down on you...i wasn't. i was summing-up what i thought was your point (looking for sympathy & agreement for your friends) & then commented on it. my responses were sympatric but i felt i had to drive home the importance of why your institution did what they did. if you took them, my comments that is, as being aloof or uncaring...i do apologize as that wasn't my intention. i rather understand more now that you've said you're in a bsn program. that only reinforce what i've been saying all along! uni have certain standards/criteria that have to be met by students...many criteria various between institutions...but whatever standards each one unfolds...must be met by all or they're in danger of loosing their accreditation.

and by no means am i perfect...i can assure you on that. i'm just trying to point-out why your uni is being so strict is all. if you re-read my second post....i specially state that if you all were quizzed on materials not previously covered, properly reviewed, or that goes way off the mark in terms of math calculations, then your friends may stand a chance at an appeal with the dept chair or school dean.

i know first hand how political some uni can be & how some folks can commit the worse offenses & nothing happens while others commit what seem like small infractions & they're nailed to the cross. i also have nearly eight years in the army reserves as a non-commissioned officer (the three years as a ncoic of the icu section, supervising others) & will tell you people are given extra duties/assignments/task all the time that require brushing-up or reviewing basic skills. now some perform said skill to standard without hesitation cuz they prepared themselves...while others did the very minimum preparation & it showed in their performances and/or presentation (everyone has to teach a class or two as part of their training). ditto in regards to my civilian nursing position...it's my observation that it's often the ones who do the minimum preparation who are/get burned in the end.

for me...it initially sounded as if your friends were not prepared & got caught off guard from it. i just had a hard time understanding the circumstances around their failure...since this was their third quiz. most institution will allow for one failure in a math calculation course with one to two make-up quizzes. i just infer that this last was their third make-up chance & they still failed....correct me if i'm wrong...but that's what i got from you first post. no way am i agreeing with your schools decision nor am i against your friends...and am i'm saying that they didn't study their math calculation enough. i'm just giving some advice based on what i inferred from your original post. it may not be what you wanted to read/hear...but it was meant to be positive...not a put-down. i think what you have to do is look at the message & not be so defensive...o.k.

cheers!

moe

btw: i haven't been to this board in ages...that's why you didn't know that i'm a she & not a he :rotfl:...but hey...no hard feelings. moe is just a nickname i've had for nearly twenty years :chuckle.

IMustBeCrazy · May 22, 2004

A bit off topic but...

With all due respect...can we stick to dark type and normal fonts for replies please? I feel like my eyes are bleeding after trying to read some of these posts. I know you probably have spent time and care in trying to answer a post, but it gets completely trivialized when I feel like I'm seeing in negative on my wall afterwards.

Thanks!

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · May 22, 2004

:chair: i'm sorry if my font/color(s) bothers you....it just a bit funny to me as your signature has almost the very same style... :chuckle!

anyhoo...i've been a member here since feb' 03 & practically post like this ever since. i've also been known to fill-up my smilie quota as well. in fact, many people probably know me from various boards because of how i post...i guess it's my style/trade-mark .

so...with all do respect...i'm goin' to have to pass on this request & continue with my own style of posting (or until brian takes the font/colors away) whichever come first :lol2: . the only advice i can offer to remedy this situation for you is to skip over the post(s) that visually bother you :wink2:.

cheers!

moe

IMustBeCrazy · May 22, 2004

The difference of course being, that my signature is not the main portion of what I am trying to convey. I have been on the internet since day one and it always makes me chuckle when I see these kind of posting faux pas, but, hey do your thing. I will be skipping them in the future as I'm sure lots of other people do because they are difficult to read and tantamount to typing in all caps.

Carry on~

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · May 22, 2004

thx ya :blushkiss ~ thx ya very much !

cheers!

moe

IMustBeCrazy · May 22, 2004

One thing that struck me about your explanation, Tony, was that you said that the tests went beyond the normal dosage calcs. Any attorney would have a field day with what you described. Coming from a legal background, I can say that those students that got removed from the program as you described can almost assuredly secure readmittance.

Words such as 'class action lawsuit' tend to perk the ears of even the most stodgy college administrators. The class that they are taking was not a 'Linear Algebra' class, it's Nursing and the calculations they were called upon to calculate were not in keeping with anything they would do as a nurse. As you suggested, I would suggest that the attorney call upon the Department of Nursing staff to retake the test as it was given to the students. I suspect that it would be an interesting result, and would prove your point about the relevance of said test. This seems to be a clear example of unfair testing. What's next, are they going to make you do physics equations? Come on. Get real.

Good luck to you and your friends, and don't take no for an answer on this one!

**SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN** · May 22, 2004

whether your friends have a case for appeal or suit....they'll miss a lot of clinical hours & class time in other subjects. unfortunately...they'll going to end-up to waiting until next year to pick-up where they left off at the very earliest & that's a shame!

no...they shouldn't give-up the fight cuz too much is at stake here.....emotionally, physically, spiritually, & financially! failing courses could spell disaster in terms of qualifying for continuing to receive financial aid/grants/scholarships. i just hope too much time hasn't gone by for them.

cheers!

moe

IMustBeCrazy · May 22, 2004

The situation described goes beyond being unfortunate. It's called PUNITIVE DAMAGES.

Tony35NYC · May 22, 2004

i just infer that this last was their third make-up chance & they still failed....correct me if i'm wrong...but that's what i got from you first post. no way am i agreeing with your schools decision nor am i against your friends...and am i'm saying that they didn't study their math calculation enough. i'm just giving some advice based on what i inferred from your original post. it may not be what you wanted to read/hear...but it was meant to be positive...not a put-down. i think what you have to do is look at the message & not be so defensive...o.k.

as i said before, you made a number of incorrect assumptions. half the things you're saying have nothing at all to do with my original post. nowhere in there did i say my friends failed the math exam three times. i did say that if a student fails the math exam three times they become permanently ineligible to continue in the program. notwithstanding, i give up on this thread because there's nothing positive at all about your comments, and it appears that you get off on putting other people down.

i don't think that even you would have maxed that math exam, moe. even though i'm so sure you're really good. or, at the very least, much, much better than me and my ill-prepared friends.

regards.

t.