Associate vs. Baccalaureate degrees in Nursing - page 2
We are interested in discussing the differences between Registered Nurses with Associate degrees in nursing (ADN) and those with baccalaureate degrees in Nursing (BSN). Some individuals believe... Read More
Mar 28, '01I disagree with buck227's comment that diploma RN's are the only true RN's. I started out in a diploma nursing program. I was tortured by my clinical instructors and my nursingwere never good enough for them no matter how hard I worked on them. After "failing" a nursing course ( I had a 79.25% when passing was 80%), I decided to go to a BSN program at one of the State schools in PA(Edinboro University). I spoke with several people I knew who were RN's and they encouraged me to acquire my BSN because I'd have more opportunities in Nursing with a 4 yr degree than if I simply had a diploma. I agree that most of the diploma grads had a lot more clinical time than I had. The place where I was previously employed most of the RN's were grads from that hospital's nursing school, which is now closed(the school that is). We are all nurses whether we have a diploma or a 2 or 4 year college degree. We all took the same examination, the NCLEX-RN, to allow us to practice as RN's. If I was asked which one I think is better for someone who is considering nursing as a career, I would encourage them to go for 4 years because you get a well rounded education. Granted some of the classes that I had to take at college were poppycock, but I learned spanish and have a deep appreciation for classical music because of the classes that I was required to take to earn my 4 year degree. Graduating from college was the proudest moment of my life. It is something that I worked hard for and paid for on my own and I'll be paying on it for at least 5 more years and it's something that no one can take away from me. A BSN gives a nurse a lot of more opportunities to move into management or other things and some of the credentialing agencies require a BSN to become certified. I don't flaunt my BSN status and I don't think that I am a "better" nurse and look down on diploma or ADN grads. I do believe that a BSN is the way yo go.
Mar 28, '01I really get tired of the misconception that because I have my BSN I spent less time in clinical than an ADN graduate. My preceptorship alone was 180 hours, along with the standard 2 clinical days a week the last two years of school. I do feel we need to come together and decide on a standard prepatory course to be able to wear the title 'nurse'. It is confusing for our client population and requires constant community education to get the information across on the different types of nurses out there.
Mar 28, '01on all of you who insist on bringing up this tired old "I am better than you because....." what a load of s**t.
Education of one type or another does not make one a better nurse. Once everyone figures this out then maybe the back stabbing and gossiping that prevents nurses from becoming a cohesive group to be reckoned with will come to an end. (yea, about the same time pigs start to fly).
A nurse can only learn so much from any type of formal education. The real learning takes place after school is finished and the nurse starts working on the floor. After about 6 months most new grads, whether ADN or BSN are pretty much equal, from that point the ones who want to continue to learn do, and the lazy ones just exist.
And if you do not agree with me, so be it.
In fact, if you are one of the elitest BSN's who think you are so much better because of education, or the ADN who believes their clinical skills are so much better, then you can just kiss my .
We live in an age that if you order a pizza delivered to your house and call 911 at the same time to report a life or death situation....my money is on the pizza arriving first! Learn to protect yourself, become a wolf among the sheep!
Mar 28, '01Haji,
Ummm..excuse me but on your last post I noticed that you included some graphics. Could you please tell me exactly what that little squirrel thing is doing? I hope it's not what I think it is...
Mar 28, '01What is going on? I have looked through loads of pages of people arguing over who's better qualified than the other. Is it any wonder that us British regard Americans as been loud-mouthed and brash?
Mar 28, '01Good God, people. Didn't we just go through like a WEEK of this back and forth crap about BSN vs ADN vs LPN vs diploma??? I for one am sick and tired of the whole thing. If you nursing students are interested in this topic, click on general nursing discussion and click on 'BSN minimum requirement.' A nice, hostile, lovely little thread that served as ample battlegrounds for half the posters on this board. ENOUGH, ALREADY!! This is so stupid, y'all.
Mar 28, '01Originally posted by kday:
Good God, people. Didn't we just go through like a WEEK of this back and forth crap about BSN vs ADN vs LPN vs diploma??? I for one am sick and tired of the whole thing. If you nursing students are interested in this topic, click on general nursing discussion and click on 'BSN minimum requirement.' A nice, hostile, lovely little thread that served as ample battlegrounds for half the posters on this board. ENOUGH, ALREADY!! This is so stupid, y'all.
[This message has been edited by maikranz (edited March 28, 2001).]
Mar 28, '01Ummm.. Ihave to agree. Take it from me. People get really defensive when talking about thier educational backgrounds and career choices. Unfortunately it is a topic that is brought up many times in journal after journal - there are also alot of misconceptions about each track. Think about how confused WE get and how each of us doesn't really know what the other nurse knows or went through - now try to see that through the eyes of a patient. I've had several patients ask me what the difference is between an ADN, a BSN, and RN, and LPN. Sometimes, I don't think I even know. My husband has been reading these posts as well. Oddly enough, he graduated with a BSN. He never sat for boards and left nursing entirely to work in Information Systems. He told me that it is this kind of bickering and bashing that made the profession seem unattractive to him. While we can probably all criticize him, we should actually learn from his opinion. This could be why we are seeing a decline in nursing school enrollment.
I'm sure I'll AGAIN take some heat for this post, but the few that do simply read my words and not between the lines may start to see what I'm saying.
[This message has been edited by Susy K (edited March 28, 2001).]
Mar 28, '01Well put, Kaknurse. The classical music appreciation is part of why I believe in the college degree as well. I had to take a theology class, as well as computer programming (which actually taught us more about logic and problem solving than anything else) as well as a pottery and art history course. I believe the 4 year degree rounds you out and if nothing else, gives you the opportunity to talk about other topics with your patients - be it American History or classical music.
Mar 28, '01I have a BS in elementary education, an AD in nursing, and am currently working on a BSN degree. One of my instructors in the AD program told our class that she did not regret the route she took to acquire a MS in nursing which was diploma, AD, BSN, and then MS. She said she sometimes finds it helpful to take one intersection at a time. That has stuck me over the years. I don't regret going the RN-BSN route. With the current nursing shortage and critical situation predicted for the near future, the nursing profession may not have a choice in the matter. We may be desperate for nurses and for some that means working toward an AD is the only feasible solution with their personal life situation. I do appreciate the well rounded education I am receiving in the BSN program. It is part of the puzzle that was missing in my experience but I don't think I could not be a nurse without it. Maybe we could give some leeway to students by creating a time element to finish the BSN after graduating from an AD program. (Just as there is a time limit on some of our classes to be eligible for transfer) We have to come together and find a solution that will be reasonable for everyone and that will not hinder patient care. Mlandon
[This message has been edited by mlandon (edited March 28, 2001).]
Jan 23, '04Originally posted by SSUBSNSENIORS
For those of you in countries other than the United States, let us know how nursing education is structured in your country of residence. Are there different educational routes to becoming a nurse? How many years are your nursing programs? Etc...
Now to your question...my spouse is a South American trained RN, where the nurses attend a 5 year program, based on the medical model (the only model we should be concerned with). They are taught to diagnose..it's a URI, not alteration in comfort related to BS. The first four years are clinicals and didactics, followed by graduation with what we call a Bachelors degree. Than, before licensure, they spend a year of unpaid internship in an underserved area practicing nursing autonomously, providing nursing/medical care to indiginous peoples, dispensing medications, wound care/management to include suturing, labor and delivery, etc. Now that's what I call nursing education. These folks are way ahead of your typical NP programs here in the states.
Jan 23, '04Originally posted by Susy K
I believe the 4 year degree rounds you out and if nothing else, gives you the opportunity to talk about other topics with your patients - be it American History or classical music. [/B]
Jan 23, '04I do appreciate the well rounded education I am receiving in the BSN program. It is part of the puzzle that was missing in my experience but I don't think I could not be a nurse without it.
I f you really have a BS as you say, as well as ADN, than nothing is missing. Those with a Bachelor's degree already have the "well rounded" education. Your ADN program gave you the "training" you were missing from your original Bachelors. You have what many universities are now calling a BSN (equiv). To think you are getting something additional from a BSN, AFTER you already have your Bachelors and ASN is ridiculous. If anything extra is needed, a course in community or public health is all that is lacking from most ADN programs, but to have to attend a drawn out rehash of what you already should have had is nothing more than pissin' your money away.