From US to UK

misswoosie · Mar 13, 2011

misswoosie,
are you practicing here it the us? i am a little bit confused by your post lol it seems like you are here in the us but are from the uk?
no-passed nclex rn in 2007,was offered a job as clinical co-ordinator 2 days afterwards and they agreed to sponsor for work visa. job required a bsn , but a few months later while we were looking for an immigration attorney etc retrogression for eb-3 green cards came in and there were no h1-b work visas available at the time.
when the wait got to about 2 years a few months later they withdrew job offer and offered me a staff nurse job on neuro, but of course that would never qualify for h1-b.
so i am waiting impatiently!
my husband got his masters in health research in july 2008 and was offered a job in charlotte nc in dec 2009 (he has a bachelors in accountany as well)
so he was able to get an h1-b and that's how we got here!
is it the responsibility on rns in the uk the reason for the amount of clinical hours required?
not sure what the requirements are for clinical hours now.it's all changed since i trained in the 80s.
i had 3,500 clinical hours and 2,500 theory hours-and that was classed as a certificate.i know the nurse nowadays don't get anything like that, but it's more than it used to be as we were producing nurses who couldn't function as staff nurses at the end of their training
us trained nurses are quite advanced in theory. i am not saying that they are not anywhere else, please dont get me wrong. i have only experienced nursing here in the us. i would love nothing more than to be able to go go to the uk and work as a nurse. i think that the news is frustrating, however, in light of what you said, i find it fascinating that nurses trained in the uk are given so much responsibility and autonomy! it sounds like nursing skills and intuition are really put to the test, and one can really hone in on their 'gut feelings' when it comes to patient care.
agree-i only learned about arterial blood gases, normal blood results etc after i qualified and worked in or and icu
while nursing training in the us is hard enough, i wish i had more clinical oppertunity so as to make a smooth transition via licensure in the uk. i understand that the transition for a uk trained nurse to come to the us is much easier-- they just have to sit for and pass the national examination. i wish it were that easy to go over there!

no-that's incorrect! we have to have all our training transcripts checked by the cgfns -a time consuming and costly process, then we have to go through a process called visa screen (more money and time) then they give you authorisation to sit nclex rn (more money again), then you have to apply for a license in the us and if i am not mistaken the only place now that will issue a license without a ssn (which you can't get untill you have a visa) is new york:jester:

misswoosie · Mar 13, 2011

just so you know, it's not as simple as just passing the nclex for uk trained nurses to come over here...uk nurses are trained either to be general adult nurses, pediatrics only, or mental health.
they don't now- but when i trained we did the whole works -med, surg, ortho, gynae, obstetrics, paeds, mental health, community, or, icu and ccu- at least 3 weeks, 37.5 hrs per week clinical hours in each of those, and came out (after 2 examinations-one multi choice and one 2 hr essay paper) as registered general nurses.
if you wanted to be a midwife, mental health or sick childrens nurse you had to do another year of training
therefore, the adult nursing programs don't have the required ob/gyn, pediatric clinical hours or theory and they have to make it up here. same thing in other specialities. i actually think it's more cumbersome to become licensed in the us rather than abroad...

at least i didn't have to make hours up anyway:)

misswoosie · Mar 13, 2011

Hello Scully, good luck on gaining employment within the UK! As a US citizen, the UK Border Agency will require that the position you're applying for to must first be on the, 'shortage occupations list'. If it's not, the employer must post the job at a jobcentre for anywhere from two to four weeks. Then job listing must (and, HIGHLY unlikely) pass the, 'Resident Labour Market Test,' meaning they can't find any other suitable, and qualified resident of the UK, or EU to take up the position. Only then,do you have a real chance at being offered the position, otherwise, you won't. The first time I was hired as an RN in the U.K., it was much easier!! Didn't have to go through all this palaver. Now, the UK have practically closed the door to immigration/hiring foreign nurses, and the best I can discern from the, 'Resident Labour Market Test' is that it is a convenient way to keep foreign nurses out. Full stop. Even if you are more qualified and experienced than a resident, or EU national. As long as the resident/ EU national (even with the least experience/qualifications) applies- they're always going to be hired first. Found that out painfully by experience. The resident was given the job over me, even though the Ward Manager said to me I was by far THE most qualified/experienced, and I was the candidate he would put forward.. I fully understand both sides of the immigration 'coin', however, the odds are stacked against anyone outside the UK/EU gaining employment as a nurse anyway. I don't want to be a,'Debbie Downer' but that is the reality you'll be facing. I absolutely wish you every success in gaining employment within the UK, if that is your aim, and I mean absolutely no disrespect to a UK/EU national. :) Never give up!!

Do you realise that the process is almost exactly the same for a UK nurse trying to get to the US?

As for them giving the job to the resident-I wouldn't take it personally as the same thing happened to me in the UK about 5 years ago when I wanted to go back to ICU and applied for a Band 5 job.

They gave it to the intern, because the hospitals are obliged by law to employ a certain number of newly qualified RNs each year.

Didn't matter that I was working as a Lecturer Practitioner and had 23 yrs nursing experience, including 10 years ICU!

Other difference is that there are far fewer jobs available in the NHS than there seem to be in the US, plus in the UK there's a bottle neck once you get to E grade. Just aren't enough jobs at band 6 and 7- at least that was the case in the North east.

There are posts around on this forum where foreign nurse talk about being offered clinical nurse specialist jobs in London through agencies, even when they have no relevant experience.

I guess that UK nurses don't want to go and work in london because of the cost of living etc.

cymrudiamond · Mar 13, 2011

misswoosie, thanks for the reply :) I'd give my right arm to even relocate to London,though Wales is my aim. Heck, I'd take a cut and go for a Band 5 just for the opportunity to work in the UK. Thing is, these agencies are bound by the UKBA regulations too, and unfortunately, are unable to assist in getting an overseas nurse hired within the UK.(as long as the job is on the 'shortage occupations list', that is.) I've been working with a couple of agencies and know this first-hand. Unless and until the UKBA's, 'shortage occupations list' encompasses more than, the paltry few listings such as, 'surgical theatre nurses, paediatric intensive care nurses..' the door will remain closed. I'm looking into switching into theatre nursing, or Paediatric Intensive Care Nursing and having a go at finding UK placement. 'Never give up' remains my motto :)

misswoosie · Mar 14, 2011

misswoosie, thanks for the reply :) I'd give my right arm to even relocate to London,though Wales is my aim. Heck, I'd take a cut and go for a Band 5 just for the opportunity to work in the UK. Thing is, these agencies are bound by the UKBA regulations too, and unfortunately, are unable to assist in getting an overseas nurse hired within the UK.(as long as the job is on the 'shortage occupations list', that is.) I've been working with a couple of agencies and know this first-hand. Unless and until the UKBA's, 'shortage occupations list' encompasses more than, the paltry few listings such as, 'surgical theatre nurses, paediatric intensive care nurses..' the door will remain closed. I'm looking into switching into theatre nursing, or Paediatric Intensive Care Nursing and having a go at finding UK placement. 'Never give up' remains my motto :)

I agree, that's also my motto in relation to Green Card here in the USA.

I may decide that, if I get GC through my husbands job, I don't want to go into nursing afterall.

Kind of leaves a sour taste in your mouth when you have a job offer in a shortage occupation and have to wait 8 years for a visa to work.

I would be quite happy to work as a Staff Nurse here as the pay comparison is better and money goes much further.

crunchie · Aug 10, 2011

To be honest there are not enough jobs for UK trained nurses. Too many overseas nurses who are not all that great only have to look on the NMC hearing to see that! also I think we need to not re-new these contracts to allow places for our own nurses.