CRNA changed to PhD??

loveanesthesia · Oct 8, 2008

I am hearing rumors that CRNA programs will be going to a Doctorate format. Has anyone else heard this??

Look at the Sticky under the CRNA Forum. AACN has mandated that all Advanced Practice nurses become educated at the doctoral level beginning in 2015. Some things to understand:

AACN accredits some of the Nurse Anesthesia programs, about 50%, but not all

Doctoral level does not mean PhD, the PhD is a research doctorate, and the degree mandated by AACN is a clinical doctorate

AACN mandated that all RNs be educated at the BSN level more than 15 years ago, and you can see where that went

The Position Statement of AANA-American Association of Nurse Anesthetists-is in support of the clinical doctorate for CRNAs beginning in 2025

I'm curious why you are negative about this?

silverbelle · Oct 10, 2008

Thank you loveanasthesia for the clearification of PhD vs Doctorate. I am still finishing my BSN and am hopeful to go to CRNA school. I do not know enough to have an opion rather the format change would be good or not. I am just a little disapointed that if I get into school it could be 4 years of stress and living on a tight budget rather than 21/2.

loveanesthesia · Oct 10, 2008

. I am just a little disapointed that if I get into school it could be 4 years of stress and living on a tight budget rather than 21/2.

The master's level CRNA programs are not like other master's programs, most are 27-30 months and around 70 credit hours, well beyond most master's programs. The clinical doctorates will probably be 3 academic years, or around 33 months, maybe another 10-20 credit hours. The master's programs are well beyond the master's degree requirements in most areas of study. I think it would be taking credit for what is already largly being done. The problem will be getting the nursing leaders at AACN to understand that we need to take credit for what we are already doing, and not just add on a bunch of theory and make it a four year program. The clinical doctorates in PT, OT, PharmD are 3 academic year programs, so the model is in practice. I don't have a strong opinion either way, but the duration of the program shouldn't be much more than now. Some of the current master's programs are 36 months in legnth, and some of the 24 month programs are actually longer because you are almost required to take some graduate hours prior to beginning the 24 months. Good-luck, it is a challenge.

Raas4555 · Oct 13, 2008

Doing three instead of two without working is about 7 times harder I would say.

Personally, that is my only problem. But it is a big worry. I don't expect to be done by 2015 so I might just get stuck doing three. I can only hope not. Going back to get the DPN or whatever is fine, but two years of straight studying is very unique to CRNAs and I don't know of any other Masters requiring you not to work, so I hope they take that into consideration.

I also heard it might take well into 2025 or so according to another agency.

loveanesthesia · Oct 13, 2008

two years of straight studying is very unique to CRNAs and I don't know of any other Masters requiring you not to work, .

Exactly, it is not like any other Master's program, it is more like a clinical doctorate program. The programs are that way for a reason, nurse anesthesia is a very demanding profession. CRNAs give very powerful medications to very sick people, you will need every bit of information you are taught. And again, most of the current CRNA programs are already longer than 2 years.

may2kd · Oct 15, 2008

At Virginia Commonwealth University, they have one of the few DNAP programs, and it's only an extra semester tacked on to the original 7 for the MSA. We were told that you apply for the DNAP program in your first year of the MSA program and then you can actually work as a CRNA while finishing that last semester distance learning.

aCRNAhopeful · Oct 15, 2008

Personally, I would love to go for a clinical doctorate (might have a change of heart after 2 1/2 years of crna school), but I don't see any downside to advancing the clinical expertise of nurse anesthetists. As long as it is a clinically emphasized degree and not nursing theory and stuff like that. Of course research is going to be a part of it either way but that's necessary to advance your own personal practice once your are a crna. Since I'm only an aspiring crna my opinion doesn't mean a whole lot on this matter, but I think theres plenty of knowledge about internal medicine type topics that would change the way a crna practices so I say go for it with the clinical doctorate.

sewnew · Oct 16, 2008

I don't want to start a war here, but I have heard this question posed many times. And I want to preface this question by saying that I am 100% in support of CRNAs having a doctorate degree.

If and when the CRNA does change over to the DNAP, what would the subsequent title of a CRNA be???? I have a feeling that MDs in the hospital setting would not be too happy if people would start referring to CRNAs as "doctors."

Would love to hear everyone's opinion on this issue. :twocents:

loveanesthesia · Oct 16, 2008

Since I'm only an aspiring crna my opinion doesn't mean a whole lot on this matter,

Your opinion is very important because you are a future applicant. There is some concern that applicants will be discouraged by the DNP requirement and the applicant pool will drop. That was a concern when the requirement for a master's degree was discussed and actually the opposite occurred. The number and quality of applicants both went up. I think the same will be true with the DNP.

SurfaceToAir · Oct 16, 2008

Over the last handful of years several professions have gone to a terminal degree- the doctorate. When I was in undergrad, Physical Therapy was transitioning from Masters of PT to Doctorates. Also, I believe shortly before this, pharmacy became a doctorate. Most of us have all worked with doctorate prepared health professionals (PT's and PHarmD's) and it is not a problem. PharmD's are not called "Dr" and neither are the physical therapists. PT's still introduce themselves to patients as "hi I'm Jenny and I'm going to be your physical therapist today."

I agree that yes it would be confusing if DNAP's were called "dr" in the clinincal setting but I do not think that is going to happen. :typing

loveanesthesia · Oct 16, 2008

what would the subsequent title of a CRNA be????

The title would be CRNA, I'm afraid the patients would confuse me with an anesthesiologist if I went by 'Dr.' That would not make me happy. It's important that they understand that I am a nurse anesthetist. I take great care of my patients, and I want them to know exactly who I am.