Finding your own clinical instructors? - pg.2 | allnurses

Finding your own clinical instructors? - page 2

I am almost completed with my MSN in nursing education through Walden University. They are starting up an FNP (also adult/gerontology) program in the fall. I'm extremely interested, but not sure... Read More

  1. Visit  myelin profile page
    4
    This is more of a musing about the field in general and not really aimed at the OP. I wish you the best of luck, pug RN!

    I know that it can hard when one is a single parent, has other responsibilities, etc... but is that really an excuse for a shoddy education and training? I know a lot of single parents who put themselves through medical school, pharmacy school, got a PhD, etc. I mean, shouldn't the education require sacrifice? I just worry that when we make NP education very easy to obtain (which, let's admit, it often is), we cheapen the field. There are many rigorous, excellent NP programs out there, but with so many NPs graduating from for-profit degree mills, online universities with little-to-no quality control... it's just spooky. And it will hurt the field, result in lower salaries, etc.

    This is what is currently happening to clinical psychology. It used to be a very rigorous field and it was extremely competitive to get accepted to a funded PhD program (we're talking 5% acceptance rates!) However, the degree mills have taken hold of the field and now anyone with a pulse can get a PsyD (or even sometimes a PhD) at one of these institutions. This has caused huge, huge problems for the field, including a ridiculous influx of psychologists. Now their market is terrible, their wages have fallen, many can't even finish training due to lack of internship spots and too many applicants, etc.

    I just think that when you look at field that maintains high quality control and limits spots, the exclusivity works in its favor - higher wages, excellent job market, etc.. Opening the floodgates (well, I guess they're already open, tbh) and letting anyone who wants to be a NP become one, well, it strikes me as a recipe for disaster.

    I'm just glad I'm going into a less popular specialty. The market for FNPs in my area is horrendous, it's so saturated.
    CCRNDiva, coast2coast, mrmedical, and 1 other like this.
  2. Visit  Tinabeanrn profile page
    1
    Can I just say that just because a person has to find their own preceptor, that does not automatically make your education "shoddy." My preceptors, had to find their own preceptors when they went to school and I had some really good preceptors in my opinion. Very seasoned NPs with years and years of experience.
    tadahh99 likes this.
  3. Visit  myelin profile page
    2
    I didn't mean to imply that all programs are automatically shoddy if a student must find their own preceptor - not at all! I just meant that the real possibility is there, and it just seems crazy to me. I just don't get why it's acceptable. I mean, if I were to see a surgeon and was told that he had to go find his own clinical experiences with no input from his medical school... well, yeah, I wouldn't want to be that surgeon's patient, kwim?
    CCRNDiva and elkpark like this.
  4. Visit  Tinabeanrn profile page
    0
    I wasn't trying to be mean or anything but it is what you said. And I if you wouldn't want to go see a surgeon that had to find their own clinicals I understand that. To each his own. But being an N P is different than medicine, obviously. And its a much smaller community of providers..at my school you couldn't just pick a random name out of a hat. You had to find decent sites. 9 times out of 10 they knew the N P. They evaluate the site and Preceptors experience before you can start clinical. Then they ask you to let them know if the experience is not going well, which you would have to do either way. It's not like your being thrown to the wolves. And yes it is unfortunate at times, but the majority of the time it works out just fine.
  5. Visit  llg profile page
    3
    Quote from Tinabeanrn
    ..at my school you couldn't just pick a random name out of a hat. You had to find decent sites. 9 times out of 10 they knew the N P. They evaluate the site and Preceptors experience before you can start clinical. Then they ask you to let them know if the experience is not going well, which you would have to do either way. It's not like your being thrown to the wolves. And yes it is unfortunate at times, but the majority of the time it works out just fine.
    That's YOUR school -- and it sounds as if your school works hard to monitor the quality of the education provided by the preceptor. But that's only one school. Many schools are not like that. In many cases, the students are just out there on their own, with virtually no follow-up or involvement from the school.

    For online programs where the students live all over the country, the school does NOT know the preceptors at all and many schools do very little to follow-up or verify the student's activities. These large online programs are growing, and those of us who see the deterioration in the quality of education provided by some of these schools are concerned about it for a good reason.

    I am happy to read that you go to a small, local program in which there is a small community of teachers and practitioners who know each other and who work together to maintain a quality program. I only wish everyone were going to such programs -- instead of being pushed through the system by programs who take their money and provide little in exchange for it.
    CCRNDiva, myelin, and elkpark like this.
  6. Visit  elkpark profile page
    3
    Quote from Tinabeanrn
    My preceptors, had to find their own preceptors when they went to school and I had some really good preceptors in my opinion. Very seasoned NPs with years and years of experience.
    But we all know nurses who are "seasoned" and have many years of experience who just aren't good nurses and whom we would not want teaching students ... Part of my concern is that NP students aren't necessarily in a good position, simply by virtue of being students, to determine whether or not someone is a good preceptor and whether they're getting a good clinical experience. We all complain here all the time about the patient satisfaction surveys, and how the problem with that system is that patients aren't typically in a good position to evaluate the quality of the nursing care they received and instead are concerned with things like how smiley and cheerful someone was -- to me, this situation isn't exactly the same, but it's in the same ballpark. Students, as the old saying goes, "don't know what they don't know." I'm certainly not talking about you, personally, and I'm glad your school has as much involvement in the process as you describe, but some of the people who post here about finding preceptors are clearly so desperate to find someone just to be able to finish their degrees (or so focused on simple convenience) that they will go with anyone who will agree to precept them, regardless. How is that promoting quality nursing education? And how much is it going to eventually damage the public perception of NPs?
    coast2coast, CCRNDiva, and myelin like this.
  7. Visit  Tinabeanrn profile page
    0
    Sounds like the issue is with the online programs more so than anything else, right? I can't speak to the quality of an online schools education. I was just stating my personal experience. It would be nice to talk to some of the online N P students and grads and see how they are doing And what their experience was like. I do agree that lots of schools are popping up and offering N P degrees online. Only time will tell what the outcome will be from this new way of education. It seems like the wave of the future though. It's 2012 and things are just different now..but your right there has to be standards and there has to be quality. I would hope that each school that has students find their own sites would have a vested interest in the students education and learning prior to setting up clinicals.
  8. Visit  marcynell81 profile page
    0
    I just finished my MN from WSU and I had to find my own preceptors. To make things better, I live in the sticks, did most of my coursework on-line and had finding clinical sites was a nightmare. I have a friend in a NP program on-line through a program in the south, and she has had to find her own preceptors too. It's a pretty common practice, though not a very helpful one. Good luck!!
  9. Visit  JustMe profile page
    0
    I got my MSN from Walden and--yes, I had to find my own mentor for my project. I got the specialty in Nursing Education and asked one of the faculty for the ADN program to mentor me. She was happy to. Go to your local nursing education program for a mentor. I'm sure you will find many teachers happy to help you. Good luck!
  10. Visit  Nurcpou profile page
    0
    I also was responsible for finding a preceptor. My program had a list of several willing clinic sites and made an effort to help students with the process. I commuted 2 hours each way for lecture, so I decided to find a preceptor that was closer to home. I found an excellent site. It took some time for the clinic and university to develop a contract, but after that things went well. My instructor seemed pleased during site visits and I feel that I had a rich and rewarding clinical experience. Best wishes to you and I hope you have an excellent experience as well.
  11. Visit  myelin profile page
    2
    Quote from Tinabeanrn
    I wasn't trying to be mean or anything but it is what you said. And I if you wouldn't want to go see a surgeon that had to find their own clinicals I understand that. To each his own. But being an N P is different than medicine, obviously. And its a much smaller community of providers..at my school you couldn't just pick a random name out of a hat. You had to find decent sites. 9 times out of 10 they knew the N P. They evaluate the site and Preceptors experience before you can start clinical. Then they ask you to let them know if the experience is not going well, which you would have to do either way. It's not like your being thrown to the wolves. And yes it is unfortunate at times, but the majority of the time it works out just fine.
    I dunno. I mean, you're in charge of assessing, diagnosing, and treating illnesses. I just don't think there is any excuse for the preceptor thing, and I would be horrified if I knew that my provider (MD/DO, NP, or PA) had to go begging for preceptors because their program didn't care at all who trained them. I know your program wasn't necessarily like that, but many, many are.

    I think the online/for-profits are the root of this problem.
    CCRNDiva and elkpark like this.
  12. Visit  CCRNDiva profile page
    0
    A friend of mine is currently enrolled in a DNP program where she is required to secure her own preceptors. She has spent many hours cold-calling practices within her state to secure preceptors. She has to drive several hours to complete her clinical hours but she considers herself lucky as many of her classmates have had to drop out for the semester due to the inability to secure preceptors.

    A former colleague complained that his preceptors were unsure what they were supposed to teach him. He along with the intensivists I spoke with encouraged me to attend a program affiliated with a medical center that would also arrange my clinicals. I'm glad I took their advice.

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