To those of you with PhD's or working on them.

marachne · Sep 16, 2008

Keep in mind that now a days there are BS to PhD programs -- like the one I'm in and BBFRN are in now :)

Before my program went to the BS to PhD program I had planned on getting a CNS. I'd say if you know you want to go on for a PhD and you are going through a traditional program, just getting a generic MSN would do the trick unless you had other specific goals in mind. Then that would be the deciding factor.

I will state, however that I have done most of the work necessary for a MNEd b/c I would rather start the teaching part of my career with some training!

llg, PhD, RN · Sep 17, 2008

I had my Master's in Perinatal Nursing with a minor in Nursing Administration. I also had 12 years of clinical experience (2 as a staff nurse, 10 as a CNS or Staff Development instructor). The combination of clinical experience and my MSN was a big plus in my PhD program. I had worked on projects, done a little research, done a little program evaluation, done some teaching, etc. So the PhD level work was not a huge step up for me -- as it was for some of my classmates. It was just a natural progression to the next step of my career.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Sep 17, 2008

Medic,

There are some really good BSN-PhD programs out there now, and I really like mine. I've seen what Marachne's program entails, and our programs are fairly similar, with a high level of support and mentorship for BSN-PhD students~ from faculty and from those students who are further in the program.

I have to say, I was scared of doing it this way at first, but not any more, now that I am actually doing it. I'm taking Master's level capstone courses, and find that I am actually more prepared than most of my classmates, who aren't going for the PhD. I atribute that to the excellent school I got my BSN from, and a high level of interest in current research, though.

As for teaching experience, I do have some adjunct faculty experience, but as a PhD student, we get first dibs on adjunct faculty positions at the university after the first year master's capstone courses are completed. I think just about all of our PhD students are doing either that or assistantships.

Check out your local programs, and see what they have to offer. Talk with some of the professors and students. They can give you a good idea of what might be your best options.

marachne · Sep 17, 2008

Just to follow up on BBFRN's comments, and responding to llg.

As BBFRN stated, most BS to PhD programs have bridge programs. Mine was an intense year that introduced us to many of the principles of research including the ideas of conceptualization, literature critique, and clinically relevant research. I even got to do some interviews and participant observation, which was great considering those are methods I'll be using in my dissertation research. When I started the traditional courses, I was definitely ahead of my master's prepared classmates on grasping some of the fundamentals.

The down side is that doctoral programs are not for everyone, and if you don't get a masters and you don't finish you're left with...bubkis.

What it ultimately comes down to, I think is finding a school that is a good fit for you.

medicrnohio, RN · Sep 18, 2008

Thank you to marachne, llg, and bbfrn for your valuable feedback. I am currently enrolled in an acute care NP program, I just started this semester. My ultimate goal is to teach and do research. I had considered enrolling in a MSN - nurse educator program, but chose the ACNP program to widen my options. I can't say that my heart is really in the NP route. I know I want to be an educator and a researcher. I know that the final decision rests upon my shoulders, but if any of you have some words of wisdom to share, my ears are open.

marachne · Sep 18, 2008

If you know you want to be an educator and you do not want an advanced clinical degree, I'd say get out of the NP program -- generally, those programs have a lot more hours (plus clinical hours!) than a general MSN or MNEd. I also am pretty sure that a fair number of these programs are on line if you want to go that route (although a bricks and mortar program may be a better option for being able to get mentored teaching experience).

Good luck with whatever you decide. The important thing I think at this level is that you do what is going to get you empasioned -- graduate level work is too hard to do as a chore!

medicrnohio, RN · Sep 18, 2008

Thanks marachne for your feedback. I have a lot of thinking to do. I can always switch to the nurse educator major at the school I am attending and then could do a post masters in an advanced clinical area if I find that I need (or want) to do that.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Sep 18, 2008

Thanks marachne for your feedback. I have a lot of thinking to do. I can always switch to the nurse educator major at the school I am attending and then could do a post masters in an advanced clinical area if I find that I need (or want) to do that.

I am not a PhD student but I tend to agree with what marachne said. I think the clinical arena is becoming more and more separate from the research arena especially with the push for the DNP as a clinical doctorate. The line is becoming more clear as to which doctorally prepared nurses produce research and which doctorally prepared nurses translate the research into clinical practice. In that regard, I think you may be heading the wrong track by doing the ACNP given your future career goals. Definitely a strong clinical base is essential for faculty members in clinical tracks in both undergraduate and advanced practice nursing programs.

But I think of all advanced practice nursing fields, the CNS role will offer more options and will allow you to be exposed to the best of both worlds. Traditional CNS roles allow you to focus on an area of nursing that interest you the most and a chance to participate in clinical research involving nursing practice in that field. As a NP, I actually envy the clinical nurse specialists at work because they actually do nursing research work and are offered assistance in these endeavors as part of the hospital's nursing collaboration with a local university's college of nursing. That is something we never get as NP's since we are not part of the department of nursing anymore.

So, I think you might want to consider the CNS field as well as it seems to be a good segway into a future PhD program.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Sep 18, 2008

Oh yeah- I have several professors who were CNSs prior to getting their PhDs. It does seem that gives them an interesting vantage point and outlook on things. All of them are great profs.

marachne · Sep 18, 2008

And if they hadn't killed the CNS program at my school, that was my plan -- a CNS in geropsych then on to the PhD. My advisor has a CNS and it clearly was a good approach.

The only concern about CNS is if you stop there, they're not getting hired a lot from what I can see...

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Sep 18, 2008

I know I'm being off topic now but it is sad for nursing to allow the demise of the CNS role in many areas of the country. There are still many clinical nurse specialists in SE Michigan hospitals. However, I notice many are older and are probably retiring in the next 10 years with no new blood joining in. A couple actually retired or left for the academia where I work and have not been replaced. Schools claim they stopped offering the programs because interest was low. I'm afraid sooner or later the role will be extinct here too.