Anyone graduated from a clinical nurse leader program? - page 4

I'm applying to a direct-entry clinical nurse leader program right now and I'm curious to know whether there are any students or graduates of such programs out there that can talk about their... Read More

  1. by   ♪♫ in my ♥
    Quote from nursemusic
    I realize that CNL is an example of an accelerate route which also offers no summer externship, but am wondering if the Masters earned ups the chances of landing a job after graduation?
    It really depends on the specific institution. In many cases, the answer is a definitive "NO." It turns out, for some odd reason, that many nurses consider the training with the least formalized education to be the best. That is, that the diploma programs produce the best new nurses followed in decreasing order by ASN then BSN and last (and least) MSN.

    To Mr./Ms. Trillion I would say, don't spend the cash on USF. Bide your time and go through SF City, College of Marin, etc and earn your ASN.
  2. by   ♪♫ in my ♥
    Quote from nursemusic
    I am considering an entry-level masters without any prior nursing experience for one reason: better chance of getting hired once entering the job market. Sure, many employers may not have a "CNL position" just yet, but since most CNLs begin as staff nurses anyway, would they beat out a non-experienced BSN graduate in a competitive job market because they have that Masters?
    No, simply not true. New grads are primarily hired based on their existing connection to an institution (through clinicals or personal relationships), not their degrees.
  3. by   Trillion
    Thanks for the advice, Song in Heart. (I'm female, btw). One of the main reasons I'm considering USF is that it is a meritocracy, not a lottery. I'm 45, with a near 4.0GPA (sorry, I'm bragging, but hell, I worked for it!) If I were in my 20's I'd consider applying year after year in the lottery systems for an RN here. I know many who are in the loop and I don't care to join them. The other reason is to take advantage of having an undergrad degree , thereby presumably increasing my hire-ability with the advanced (CNL) degree. That being said, I value your advice. I want lots of patient contact and the trials and rewards that entails. When I think of "nursing" that's what my mind sees- directly helping people and getting my (gloved) hands dirty. You are not the first nurse to encourage me to go the ASN route. I will look into it. Thanks again. BTW, my sister is a nurse and she thinks I'm nuts to get into this field so I'm always seeking encouragement. It's disappointing to me that she doesn't think I'm doing the right thing, even though we're 45 and 55. I still seek her approval!
  4. by   ♪♫ in my ♥
    Quote from Trillion
    Thanks for the advice, Song in Heart. (I'm female, btw). One of the main reasons I'm considering USF is that it is a meritocracy, not a lottery. I'm 45, with a near 4.0GPA (sorry, I'm bragging, but hell, I worked for it!) If I were in my 20's I'd consider applying year after year in the lottery systems for an RN here. I know many who are in the loop and I don't care to join them. The other reason is to take advantage of having an undergrad degree , thereby presumably increasing my hire-ability with the advanced (CNL) degree. That being said, I value your advice. I want lots of patient contact and the trials and rewards that entails. When I think of "nursing" that's what my mind sees- directly helping people and getting my (gloved) hands dirty. You are not the first nurse to encourage me to go the ASN route. I will look into it. Thanks again. BTW, my sister is a nurse and she thinks I'm nuts to get into this field so I'm always seeking encouragement. It's disappointing to me that she doesn't think I'm doing the right thing, even though we're 45 and 55. I still seek her approval!
    If it matters to your assessment of my opinion, I also entered nursing school with existing degrees in my mid-40's and I also chose a CNL program for pretty much the same reasons that you're considering it.
  5. by   Trillion
    Yours is precisely the kind of opinion I need! Do you wish you hadn't gone for the CNL program? Did you go into the program after prior experience in nursing?
    Do you work as a CNL now? I'm gonna go ahead and ply you for details, if you don't mind indulging me!
  6. by   UVA Grad Nursing
    I'd like to add some advice to Trillion too.

    I agree with Song that most new grads find their positions through their own or institutional contacts (through places where you did clinicals, where you may have ad a summer internship, etc). But the reputation of a school can also be important if you are looking for a position outside of your immediate community. Just as with law schools and MBA schools, attending a school with a national profile/reputation can help if you are looking for jobs outside of your town/state.

    We have a very robust CNL program at my institution (ADN-entry, BSN-entry, and Direct Entry (for non-nurses). Our entry-level MSN program has excellent outcomes (NCLEX passrate is 100% for the past two year, grads are employed at top hospitals across the country). Much of this is the way in which the clinical are conducted - 1000 precepted hours conducted 1:1 with experienced nurses. There are no traditional group clinicals at all in the program. These students have more total clinical hours than any ADN or BSN program in the state.

    All Veterans Administration hospitals are supposed to have CNLs in all units by 2013. It is possible that the folks at USF mis-spoke and meant to say that all V.A. Hospitals were mandating CNLs (not all C.A. hospitals were requiring this).

    Last year over 80% of our Direct Entry grads had jobs by the time of graduation; the percentage of our BSN grads was about 65% at the same time. This was much higher that the local community college (which had about 10% with job offers at graduation) Approximately 50% of the ASN grads were still unemployed 4 months after graduation. Employment does vary from place to place and all 20 of the EL Masters CNL programs will have different stories.
  7. by   ♪♫ in my ♥
    Quote from Trillion
    Yours is precisely the kind of opinion I need! Do you wish you hadn't gone for the CNL program? Did you go into the program after prior experience in nursing?
    Do you work as a CNL now? I'm gonna go ahead and ply you for details, if you don't mind indulging me!
    I do not regret the route that I chose because (a) it was the fastest way through (as you said, none of this lottery/waiting list nonsense), (b) it was at a public university which, while much costlier than a community college, was much (much, much) cheaper than a program like USF's, and (c) I did earn a MS degree which, after I attain sufficient experience, will qualify me to work as a clinical instructor or adjunct faculty.

    I also think that the CNL curriculum provides a knowledge base and mindset which is sorely needed in nursing. In my case, much of the material was similar to subjects from my process engineering background but many of my classmates had never been exposed to systems-level and predictive analysis.

    I am hoping that when the time comes for me to find another job that my graduate degree and CNL certification will count for something. We do have a local VA hospital who does hire CNLs but they require 5 years of nursing experience.

    I do not presently work as a CNL and, in fact, I'd probably not choose to barring a dearth of alternate options though perhaps my opinion will change as I get older.

    I did not enter the CNL with any health care or nursing experience (save my CNA which I earned just prior to beginning the program).

    Nearly two years out from graduation and most of my classmates have found work though not all of them (and not all of them in acute-care facilities).

    Acknowledging the evident bias against the DEMSN programs, I will tell you that myself and most of my classmate were very well received in the clinical units where we studied. We often heard comments like, "Really, you're first-semester nursing students???" That may be more due to the fact that we tended to be older and more accomplished than the students from the local ASN and BSN programs, though.

    All in all, I don't regret the path that I chose in order to get into nursing but I think I might feel differently if I had coughed up $70,000 to go to school.

    I have mixed feelings about having chosen to enter the nursing profession in favor of alternate options which I didn't pursue and which are no longer available to me.
  8. by   Trillion
    Thank you so much for taking the time to write this detailed response. The sticky situation, being in our mid-forties, is the knowledge that dedicating 2 years of education and many more years gaining experience in a singular field is hopefully what
    one is ready, willing and wanting to do. It's a gamble. But gambling makes life interesting. I, too, see myself back in education later on. I spent almost 10 years teaching in vocational colleges and loved just about every second of it. And as you did, am considering becoming a CNA this summer. As a massage therapist, I always wanted "difficult" clients and challenging cases. I love assisting labor and, on the opposite end of the spectrum, working w/ hospice care, helping patients feel as cared for as possible as they exit our world. I never feel queasy or disgusted by any of it, but find it fascinating, humbling and an honor to participate in. 70K is an awful lot of student loan to take on at age 45. And in truth, it would be a bit more than that including living expenses that I'd have to borrow for to partially cover. I'm lucky my husband has a good job, but I'd still need a bank to help us. Nursing is tough to get into in the Bay area but I really do feel a calling. It's just a matter of how/when. It seems there less options in the impacted situation here in SF than in other parts of the country but relocating is not an option. Again, thank you so much for participating in this discussion.
  9. by   Trillion
    Oh, and I'm glad you mentioned predictive analysis. I am currently taking Statistics and can't believe how much I love it. I'd be thrilled to be able to put it into practice.
  10. by   ♪♫ in my ♥
    Something to keep in mind...

    There is a role for massage therapists who are also nurses. I hired one for my wife who spent five days on L&D... the only reason the perinatologist would OK it was because she was also an L&D nurse. There's also evidence indicating efficacy of massage in the NICU. In both cases - as with everything in nursing - one must find enlightened physicians to permit such interventions.

    While I wouldn't dissuade you from nursing in general, I'd really caution you about jumping into the USF program. That's a ton of debt to take on as a 40-something with some significant risk of obtaining employment upon graduation. The Bay Area is one of the most competitive job markets in the entire country, especially for new grads.
  11. by   ADEcstatic
    Thank you SO much for your insight, ♪♫ in my ♥. It's very refreshing to hear a DEMSN Graduate's side of the story. There are so many disheartening comments from current nurses who dislike being a nurse and who equally dislike DE programs. I stopped reading them after having a glimpse of one thread dedicated to dissing the DE graduates' ability to provide quality patient care because of perceived inadequate training or lack of patient care experience. After reading a few comments and seeing the bias from more experienced and knowledgeable nurses, it scared me a bit to think that some of them may be my future preceptors and co-workers. I will be starting a program in the Fall and I'm very excited. I've also become more determined than ever to excel in the program, absorb as much information as I can (without going nuts), and get as much experience as I could out in the field. All these not only because I strongly believe I have the capability to make a lot of difference but to prove bigots wrong. No one is old (or young) enough have a career change. That philosopy is true even in nursing.


    Quote from ♪♫ in my ♥
    I do not regret the route that I chose because (a) it was the fastest way through (as you said, none of this lottery/waiting list nonsense), (b) it was at a public university which, while much costlier than a community college, was much (much, much) cheaper than a program like USF's, and (c) I did earn a MS degree which, after I attain sufficient experience, will qualify me to work as a clinical instructor or adjunct faculty.

    I also think that the CNL curriculum provides a knowledge base and mindset which is sorely needed in nursing. In my case, much of the material was similar to subjects from my process engineering background but many of my classmates had never been exposed to systems-level and predictive analysis.

    I am hoping that when the time comes for me to find another job that my graduate degree and CNL certification will count for something. We do have a local VA hospital who does hire CNLs but they require 5 years of nursing experience.

    I do not presently work as a CNL and, in fact, I'd probably not choose to barring a dearth of alternate options though perhaps my opinion will change as I get older.

    I did not enter the CNL with any health care or nursing experience (save my CNA which I earned just prior to beginning the program).

    Nearly two years out from graduation and most of my classmates have found work though not all of them (and not all of them in acute-care facilities).

    Acknowledging the evident bias against the DEMSN programs, I will tell you that myself and most of my classmate were very well received in the clinical units where we studied. We often heard comments like, "Really, you're first-semester nursing students???" That may be more due to the fact that we tended to be older and more accomplished than the students from the local ASN and BSN programs, though.

    All in all, I don't regret the path that I chose in order to get into nursing but I think I might feel differently if I had coughed up $70,000 to go to school.

    I have mixed feelings about having chosen to enter the nursing profession in favor of alternate options which I didn't pursue and which are no longer available to me.
  12. by   ♪♫ in my ♥
    Quote from ADEcstatic
    Thank you SO much for your insight, ♪♫ in my ♥. It's very refreshing to hear a DEMSN Graduate's side of the story. There are so many disheartening comments from current nurses who dislike being a nurse and who equally dislike DE programs. I stopped reading them after having a glimpse of one thread dedicated to dissing the DE graduates' ability to provide quality patient care because of perceived inadequate training or lack of patient care experience. After reading a few comments and seeing the bias from more experienced and knowledgeable nurses, it scared me a bit to think that some of them may be my future preceptors and co-workers.
    You're welcome.

    Due to the biases, I chose not to reveal to my coworkers that I had an MSN until just recently, now that I'm a proven commodity.

    The funny thing about the perceptions regarding clinical experience *isn't* that my program had nearly the same clinical hours as the local ASN program. The funny thing to me is that if you're taught *good practice* and *thinking* skills then you're fine even if you haven't performed a skill before. Really, this stuff ain't rocket science.
  13. by   newmusic
    Quote from ♪♫ in my ♥
    You're welcome.

    Due to the biases, I chose not to reveal to my coworkers that I had an MSN until just recently, now that I'm a proven commodity.

    The funny thing about the perceptions regarding clinical experience *isn't* that my program had nearly the same clinical hours as the local ASN program. The funny thing to me is that if you're taught *good practice* and *thinking* skills then you're fine even if you haven't performed a skill before. Really, this stuff ain't rocket science.
    So it's possible to be discrete with your DEMSN? Were you treated like any other RN? ((I had thoughts of getting harrassed because everyone would know, or my supervisor would have told my coworkers ahead of time, or something paranoid like that.))

    Also, do CNLs replace hospital social workers, or are they on different terf completely?

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