The Circumcision Discussion - page 94

by jmspeach | 190,500 Views | 1299 Comments

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My husband says yes, it's better... Read More


  1. 3
    Why is it over the top? Why do we call it one thing on boys and another on girls? Not every woman who's been cut feels they have been 'mutilated' either. There was a great article in AWHONN's Nursing for Women's Health about a year or two ago, and it alluded to that.

    I'm not saying we need string up parents by their toenails who had their sons circed...I'm just saying we as a society need to take a long hard look at why we are doing this to newborn boys. This goes double for people in healthcare, we who are supposed to be practicing evidence-based everything.

    (I know you and I have had this conversation in many many different threads, Steph...and this is not directed at you. ) My 4yo happened across a picture of a recently circed baby - not even crying - but with the gauze stuck to his penis, and asked me what that was on the baby's pito. (Much as you, I've tried to get him to call it a penis, and Daddy's word wins.) I told him that the doctor had cut some skin off - not a lot more detail than that - and he got this freaked-out look on his face and said, "They're not gonna cut my pito, are they?" If you guys had been in Europe, it might be likely that your boys would be mad at your dh for having won the argument.

    I just really don't understand circumcision at all.
  2. 1
    Quote from elvish
    why is it over the top? why do we call it one thing on boys and another on girls? not every woman who's been cut feels they have been 'mutilated' either. there was a great article in awhonn's nursing for women's health about a year or two ago, and it alluded to that.

    i'm not saying we need string up parents by their toenails who had their sons circed...i'm just saying we as a society need to take a long hard look at why we are doing this to newborn boys. this goes double for people in healthcare, we who are supposed to be practicing evidence-based everything.

    (i know you and i have had this conversation in many many different threads, steph...and this is not directed at you. ) my 4yo happened across a picture of a recently circed baby - not even crying - but with the gauze stuck to his penis, and asked me what that was on the baby's pito. (much as you, i've tried to get him to call it a penis, and daddy's word wins.) i told him that the doctor had cut some skin off - not a lot more detail than that - and he got this freaked-out look on his face and said, "they're not gonna cut my pito, are they?" if you guys had been in europe, it might be likely that your boys would be mad at your dh for having won the argument.

    i just really don't understand circumcision at all.

    i'm agreeing with you on everything! except the tone of the mutilation post.

    and i know my boys and husband/ex-husband are only saying the things they do because, right now, they are the "normal" looking ones and the guys with an intact penis are "odd-looking". i think that is changing of course. more parents opt out of circing. which i would have done if i could have won the argument.

    but criticizing those of us who did have our boys circ'd . . .by posting the following is not fair. (i added the red).

    "i refused to mutilate my boys"


    it is like the breastfeeding nazi's coming down on the formula feeding moms with their eye-rolling condescension . .. that formula is abuse because you are not allowing your child to have the natural benefits of breastmilk.

    (remember - i'm a huge believer in breastfeeding and i breastfed my kids to toddler-hood). :d

    i just don't think remarks like that do much to further the discussion. would you tell a jewish family they are mutilating their baby during a bris milah? it is a holy event - to them.

    [color=#003399]the word bris means covenant; the word milah, to cut.
    ritual circumcision is the covenant g-d has established with the jewish people through the commandment of circumcision.
    [color=#003399]bris milah
    judaism views body and soul as holy partners in serving g-d. therefore, the bris is performed on the most physical part, for all of man is holy before his creator. bris milah joins the forces of body and soul together in serving g-d.




    steph
    Last edit by Spidey's mom on Feb 21, '09
    k-t-did likes this.
  3. 2
    Would you tell a Muslim family that they are mutilating their little girl? It may be their way of welcoming their daughter into their community, or part of their religion's way being right before their God.

    Why we allow one and not the other is something I do not understand, no matter how many arguments I have heard. I just don't.

    Just asking.
    Circumcision alone, in the absence of the brit milah ceremony, does not fulfill the requirements of the mitzvah
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah
    Very interesting link. Ok, now I really have to get ready for work.
  4. 0
    Quote from Elvish
    Would you tell a Muslim family that they are mutilating their little girl? It may be their way of welcoming their daughter into their community, or part of their religion's way being right before their God.

    Why we allow one and not the other is something I do not understand, no matter how many arguments I have heard. I just don't.

    Just asking.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah
    Very interesting link. Ok, now I really have to get ready for work.

    Well . .... my best guess would be that people see a difference in the physical act of circumcision of what happens to girls in Muslim countries.

    (I'm supposed to be mopping floors . . . )


    steph
  5. 3
    But why, when the physical act may be much the same? That's what I don't understand. I think when people think of FGC, they imagine the most severe form, and it seems they think of circumcision of boys as just a little snip. It's not. (I know you know all this...I'm just saying.)

    Most circs here aren't done because parents are Jewish or Muslim....so for the US in terms of religious circumcision, we're talking a really small number. Again, I know none of this is news to you...

    I just hate it all.

    (And no, I wouldn't march into someone's room and tell them what a horrible parent they are for 'mutilating' their son. I agree that's not the best way to have a productive, enlightening conversation. But I'm not a nurse taking care of patients right now...I'm really trying to understand why people continue to do this, and I can't.)

    Ok. For real...off to put on my face for work.
  6. 1
    Quote from elvish
    but why, when the physical act may be much the same? that's what i don't understand. i think when people think of fgc, they imagine the most severe form, and it seems they think of circumcision of boys as just a little snip. it's not. (i know you know all this...i'm just saying.)

    most circs here aren't done because parents are jewish or muslim....so for the us in terms of religious circumcision, we're talking a really small number. again, i know none of this is news to you...

    i just hate it all.

    (and no, i wouldn't march into someone's room and tell them what a horrible parent they are for 'mutilating' their son. i agree that's not the best way to have a productive, enlightening conversation. but i'm not a nurse taking care of patients right now...i'm really trying to understand why people continue to do this, and i can't.)

    ok. for real...off to put on my face for work. :d
    since even the small "cut" on a woman takes away her ability to come to orgasm . .that is different i guess.

    this argument shouldn't be between us . . . we agree for the most part.

    my only comment should be on the intolerant kinda mean comment that we parents who do choose to circ are not good parents . . .and that is how some of us took that ""i refused to mutilate my boys"?

    let's not insult each other. that's all.

    steph
    tvccrn likes this.
  7. 2
    Since even the small "cut" on a woman takes away her ability to come to orgasm . .that is different I guess.
    But does it always??
    I'm not arguing with you. I know we agree on about 99% of this discussion, if not 100.

    I can understand why people would take offense at that, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I don't think people who choose to circ are necessarily bad parents. But I do fault medical societies in this country who continue to allow it to be a routine option.
    Spidey's mom and Smurfette752 like this.
  8. 0
    you wouldn't walk into a room and say it, but you have no problem coming into this forum and saying it, yet we are still real people, capable of being insulted just like your patients. I would hypothesize that the majority of mothers on the board chose circ. And you accused us of mutilating our children, who I guarantee you are every bit as precious to us as yours are to you. . Far from respectful. Perhaps your position in this community relieves you of the duty to be respectful to other members?
  9. 0
    Quote from spidey's mom
    [color=#003399]bris milah
    judaism views body and soul as holy partners in serving g-d. therefore, the bris is performed on the most physical part, for all of man is holy before his creator. bris milah joins the forces of body and soul together in serving g-d.
    in all fairness steph, just because something is part of a religious belief (generally speaking) doesn't mean it isn't ridiculous.

    i'm not saying anyone's religious belief on circumcision is ridiculous but being religious does not mean it isn't ridiculous.

    being religious does give it a free pass. you can argue that the cutting of girls is cultural which is as important as religious traditions.

    so... if circumcision is ok because it is religious then cutting girls is ok because it's cultural. if that logic is true then hey, beheading is acceptable because it is regional and certain behaviors can be ok because they are racial and everything else is ok.

    when are we going to grow up and realize that religious, spiritual, culture, tradition and every other 'reason' does not automatically make something ok. belief does not make truth steph. belief does not make right either.

    the jihad on the foreskin should be ended.
  10. 1
    Saying someone's body has been mutilated is a judgement and depends on the values of any given community. One man's mutilation is another man's way cool body modification. I don't believe in circumcision of children because, as a parent, I personally don't feel I have a right to make any significant body modification to my minor child without his informed consent. I wouldn't get my infant daughter's ears pierced, either. Or get my children tattoos. And despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of men do not have sexual dysfunction due to circumcision, I don't have convincing evidence that it doesn't affect sensitivity or sexual responsiveness, so it stays on until there's a good reason for it not be there.

    When my son's are 18 (or perhaps younger if they whine enough) they can get their foreskins cut off if they want and then get a Prince Albert stud rammed through their glans if they want that, too. Until then, forget it!

    As far as dads complaining they want their son's penis to look like theirs, 1) In my family my husband doesn't whip his penis out and compare it with my sons' regularly, 2) when my sons have seen their dad's penis they were more "traumatized" by pubic hair and my husband has no intention of shaving.
    LovebugLPN likes this.


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