The Circumcision Discussion - page 61
I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More
Jul 9, '08Quote from MIcrunchyRNI had kidney stones. Unfortunately, I remember the pain.I do not agree with this...
LOL how many women go thru natural childbirth to only do it again numerous times. I have no recollection of the actual pain I went thru. I can say to myself Yup it hurt... but I don't remember what it actually felt like. Same with all 3 knee surgeries I've had. Yup it hurt do I rememebr waht it felt like? nope... am I traumatized... nope.
For the record, the number of Jews who choose not to circumcise is tiny.
Jul 9, '08Well alright then. Honstly, I do not care. I do like good discussion every now and then however. I am no better or worse off than my "intact" counterparts. Unless somebody knows something I don't?
Jul 9, '08The arguments for female circumcision and for male circumcision are very similar. In both cases, hygiene, appearance and decrease in sexual pleasure are given as reasons for doing it. (Male non-religious circumcision was popularized in the U.S. as an anti-masturbation technique.) Feel free to look up the history. I just think we as nurses need to think critically about the cultural practices we assist in perpetuating. I think we should also hold ourselves responsible to "First do no harm."
Any expecting parents who are on the fence about the issue might think about it differently if they are open minded enough to watch an actual circumcision video. They are on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIRANs0eXwI
Teaching video from Stanford:
Watch for yourself and then decide what you want done to your child.
Jul 9, '08Oh, the poor baby!! I am filled with pain.
Look, how about we be real nurses and actually talk with the parents. Find out their thoughs on the subject, try to understand their fears and concerns, present the facts, and ultimately support their decision.
Now, with that you cannot honestly expect me to compare female genital cutting to male circs. You simply cannot compare the two concepts. You degrade and disrespect any woman who had had the horror of genital cutting performed upon them.
Jul 9, '08Quote from AirforceRNITA. If the circ is being done solely for the sake of appearance, I don't think it should be done.I have to admit that this really gets to me. Changing your child's hair is one thing, cutting off a body part is another thing entirely. Do you come out of the L&D suite and say "Its a boy! 10 fingers, 10 toes! He is just perfect! Except for that foreskin, I don't like the looks of that so we are going to cut it off." I know a lot of parents don't like the appearance because it doesn't "look like daddy"...
1) The kid doesn't and won't care, him and his father aren't twins, they don't look the same anyway.
2) If your son's penis looks like his fathers penis there is something wrong with one of the two. By the time the two are even beginning to approximate a resemblance, you have no business looking at your son's penis anyway.
Just my two cents
And "looking like daddy" is a poor reason too.
Jul 9, '082 more quick points....
1) GilaRN has a good point...it would be interesting to ask males that were circumcised in later life if there is a difference with respect to sexual practice etc.
2) Why not compare female and male circumcisions? Is it more barbaric to cut a female's genitals than a male's? Just because it is practiced more widely doesn't make it right or less barbaric. Just because doctors in our culture are trained to do it doesn't make it ethical. Either way you are SLICING OFF PART OF YOUR BABY'S GENITALS! I fail to see how this is in any way acceptable.
And back down I come from my soapbox.
Jul 9, '08I guess I see a difference between a male foreskin and say a female clitoris. We are talking about removing a very important functional part of a females reproductive system. The specific function of the male foreskin is still a thing of debate. However, I understand you stance.
Agree to disagree then?
Jul 9, '08GilaRN...
Yes...I'm not out for a fight, just feel strongly that's all.
I by no means condone the removal of a female's clitoris or would care to compare it to a male circ. The WHO seperates female genital mutilation into various categories depending on how much of the area is removed. I think comparing removal of the clitoral hood to a male circ is...appropriate...beyond that though, we are certainly talking about an entirely different circumstance.
Jul 9, '08Hey, I am not out for a fight either. As I have stated before, my stance is somewhat neutral. Ok, perhaps I have an opinion; however, it really does not matter on an online public forum. So, I choose to take this side and that side from issue to issue in order to promote candid and hopefully intelligent discussion.
Yeah, I use a little humor and sarcasm. Ant eater, I thought it was funny. LOL
Jul 10, '08Quote from MIcrunchyRNFYI, the AAP does not recommend circ to prevent penile cancer. Here is a link to their policy statement: http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...cs%3b103/3/686
The AAP states circ's can prevent certain types of penile cancer in the future and for some reason performing cosmetic surgery on an infant is justified for this reason. Yet you never see a ped performing mastectomies on infant girls because they might get breast cancer one day....
They discuss that cases of penile cancer may be higher in uncircumcised men, but that reliable data does not exist to be sure. Also, due to the fact that the rate of penile cancer is around 9 per 1 million men in the US it really isn't even a consideration.
Jul 10, '08i realize this is a hot button issue for many people, but so far (unless i missed a post) no one has addressed the issue of adult circumcision.
i am the wife of a circumsized man, and the mother of two sons, both also circumsized, ditto for our grandson (clearly a choice his parents made, not us as grandparents. we never disucssed the matter with them.) we did not opt for this because of the "look like daddy" theory, or for relgious reasons (we are catholic). in addition, i'd like to add that i was in my twenties and an army officer at the time, ten years away from becoming an rn.
so what prompted our choice? prior to the birth of our first son (and back then gender was unknown until birth barring an amniocentisis) one of my husband's young soldiers required a circumcision for phimosis and chronic uti's--at age 20. the mental trauma was awful, and since sutures were required, medical intervention (not sure what, guessing now antihypertensives or a nerve block) was required to prevent physiological nocturnal erections. i know this is rare, but combined with hygiene concerns was enough for us to consent. btw, both boys were circ'd with a plastibell, seemed to have no discomfort, and wound up with clean circ lines. i wouldn't pressure a parent into this, but comparing a circ to female genital multilation is way over the top...
..and yeah, an old boyfriend wasn't circ'd.....and yes, i thought it was icky. sorry, but true.
Jul 10, '08So it's ok to mutilate a boy's penis but not a woman... Biased much?
A circumcision whether male or female are the same thing, cruel and unnecessary.
Many people keep referencing the practice of circumcising women in certain parts of the world. They do the same thing to boys at near the same age. It's barbaric there and it's barbaric here.
Jul 10, '08The arguments I've seen most people give for FGC being so horrible (and it is) is that 1) it's done with no anesthesia; 2) it's done in less-than-sterile condition; 3) it's done for removal of sexually functioning organs; and 4) it leaves women crippled for life.
I would encourage any of you in this debate to read the book Warrior Marks by Alice Walker (author of The Color Purple). She traveled to Africa and talked with people associated with FGC. She talked with mothers, fathers, daughters, husbands, doctors, and the people doing the cutting. It is very interesting and shocking. And most unnerving perhaps is that the same reasons people give for having their daughters cut are exactly the same reasons folks here give for having their sons cut.
Here, if you even make a ceremonial pinprick in your daughters' labia you're in the pokey for child abuse, rightly so.