Are 12 hour shifts safe?

Larla · Feb 7, 2008

I happen to work every Friday, Sat & Sunday, 12 hrs sifts in PCU, which is both mentally & phyiscally exhausting. By the 3rd day I'm pooped! However, I have four days to recover, as one person already pointed out. Sundays are usually better because I know my patients & have established a connection with them, which is important to me. The weekenders are usually the same nurses & we get along good.

I think working 8 hrs shifts would be more stressful due to time restraints.

L

pantheon · Feb 7, 2008

Wow...what a great website. I have never had a chance to get such good input in this topic. I wonder if what nursing specialty you work has a bearing on how long one can work safely for 12 hours or even 16. I think some depts in one hospital work 8 others are on 12hr. I work psych, and expecially on a hectic shift, I am ready to go home. I talked to at least one nurse that has worked acute care, and warned me, that the patient load, because of the acuteness of todays patients was demanding. On one assignment I have gone to, I pass meds to 25 patients, assess patients with a change in condition, talk to patients relatives as needed, call doctor when there is a change in condition, and of course counsel and give prns to agitated patients. All this can give leave you burned out after 8hrs. Its true its not always that you have to send a patient to er and do everything I mentioned. Or that you have to spend 20 minutes explaining clients progress to a relative.
So i wonder if different specialites are more exhausting both mentally and physically.

OK, I am different from everyone else from what I have read. I hate 12 hour shifts! I have always worked 3pm-11pm and loved it! Think about this. I was working full-time 8 hour shifts and yes it was busy but I loved that. I did the best I could and what was left over was what is called continuation of care. You can't do everything that's face it. This is my point: sure 5 days a week every other weekend seemed to suck! But the pay was great. I made $80,000+ dollars as a staff RN on a med/surg/tele floor in NJ not far from NYC. I hated the commute so I found a job closer to me after 3 years. That unit was 12 hour shifts. I thought WOW, 3 days a week only 36 hours and that is considered full-time! Well, the pay was basically the same but because I was working bi-weekly meaning 6 shifts in a 2 week pay check it reduced my salary significantly. 36 hours is only 72 hours per pay check and if you work more than that your not getting time and a half. You would have to exceed 80 hours in a pay period. When I did 40 hours a week, I got that time in a half no questions asked because it was a busy floor. So most of my pay checks were 84 hours give or take a few hours. They could see by my documentation that I was legitimate. I think more and more hospitals are doing 12 hour shifts because it saves them money. I was so tired after nine hours that all I could think about was going home to sleep. Hey, if you don't mind making less money then go for it. Some hospitals do offer 12 hour shifts with one 8 hour shift which I think is great. For now I'm sticking to my 8 hour shifts. :nurse:

Larla · Feb 7, 2008

Hi Pantheon,

I understand your point, however, I work the "Balard" on weekends, so even though I work 72 hours, I still receive an additional 16 hours of pay in a two week period.

That is, you have to "give up" your weekends.

pantheon · Feb 7, 2008

Hi Pantheon,
I understand your point, however, I work the "Balard" on weekends, so even though I work 72 hours, I still receive an additional 16 hours of pay in a two week period.
That is, you have to "give up" your weekends.

You lost me! What do you mean by Balard? It's not in my Webster dictionary and I haven't heard that used in any hospital I worked in. We had weekend people that were considered per-diem, no medical benefits etc. They made 50 to 60+ dollars an hour doing 12 hour shifts sometimes 16 hour shifts. Are you saying you work during the week and are on call for the weekends? How do you receive an additional 16 hours of pay in a two week period? I'm very interested in what you mean. Thanks.

Larla · Feb 7, 2008

Sorry if I was not clear. The balard program is a program my hospital has. You must work every Saturday & Sunday and one day in the week. In return you receive per-diem which total 16 hours in a two week period. :yeah:

It is great but you are giving up every weekend!

Make sense?

Larla · Feb 7, 2008

I'm sorry, I was spelling "Balard" wrong.....it's Baylor. :crying2:

pantheon · Feb 7, 2008

I'm sorry, I was spelling "Balard" wrong.....it's Baylor.

Hi Larla, Well, now I get it! I still can't find even Baylor in Websters or Tabers dictionary but I understand what you mean. Your hours add up to 160 hours a month which is like working full-time. That sounds like an awesome schedule. Plus you probably get an extra differential fee for working on the weekends! You go girl! Thanks for explaining. I thought I was losing my mind! I'm one of those people that doesn't pretend and in nursing I don't think anyone ever should. If I don't understand something I'll be the first one to say it. With patients and family members I just say let me get some literature for you to make it easier. That way I don't look or sound like an idiot. Thanks again!

pantheon · Feb 7, 2008

I HATE the 12 hour shifts. To me, this is something hospital administration has "snowed" nurses into believing is a great benefit when it actually most benefits the hosptial. For example:
- When have your ever really worked a 12 hour shift? Most of the time it is a 13 or 14 hour shift. And yet, do you earn overtime? Nope, because you probably never get to the over 40 hour mark to start earning overtime. Benefit goes to the financial administrator of your hospital.
- When you are off (trying to recover!) how many times have you received desperate calls to work extra shifts because the unit is short? Hospital Admin sees our "4 day off time" as a much expanded potential work force to be drafted PRN. And, sadly, so many nurses cave in and agree to work more, even when tired and still recovering from regularly scheduled shifts.
- When working your 12 hour shifts, do you get expanded times for "breaks" (the Tech's do)? Do you get to leave the floor and take a leisurely lunch break for at least an hour because you never get to take breaks? Nope. You just keep plowing on all day long, jumping everytime the call bells go off, or a doctor calls, or a transportation person needs help moving a patient, etc.... Do you get paid for the time you didn't take a break or lunch?
- How is your nurse:patient ratio? If staffing is "short" a 12-hour shift can really be exhausting AND create great potential for error if you are carrying a high patient load. And when counting patient load...don't forget to count all the admissions and discharges during your shift. I once worked at a hospital that promoted the folklore that "we staff a 4:1 ration." The truth was that you never had less than 5 or maybe 6 patients on days. And, during that day it was not unusual to discharge 2 or 3 and get 2 or 3 new patients. By my count, this really means that I had anywhere from 6 to 9 patients that long 12+ hour day.
- Do you like working like a "coal miner" - going in in the dark and comming home in the dark? Are you overweight or nutritionally deficient because you eat main meals at 10 PM after getting home so late and fall into bed to repeat the process the next day?
- Is your family missing you at dinner or other family time events that usually take place prior to your late arrival after a 12-14 hour shift which is almost 50% of your life?
- Think of it this way.... why should you work yourself down so hard for 3 days a week that it takes you a day or two to "recover" from working so hard? Work should fit into your life so that it takes some energy but not enough to where you loose several days trying to rest up so you can go and do it all over again!
These 12+ hour workday situations are now so common that it is quite hard to find a position that offers 8 hour days. But I have found one and I am very happy to be living what I consider a "normal" working life.
Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me sound off!

Hi, I just read your reply and I have to commend you on being so honest! I 100% agree with you. I'm glad someone else realizes what these hospitals are trying to get away with. Thanks for sounding off!!!!!!!! :yeah:

psychnurse1998 · Feb 8, 2008

I HATE the 12 hour shifts. To me, this is something hospital administration has "snowed" nurses into believing is a great benefit when it actually most benefits the hosptial. For example:
- When have your ever really worked a 12 hour shift? Most of the time it is a 13 or 14 hour shift. And yet, do you earn overtime? Nope, because you probably never get to the over 40 hour mark to start earning overtime. Benefit goes to the financial administrator of your hospital.
- When you are off (trying to recover!) how many times have you received desperate calls to work extra shifts because the unit is short? Hospital Admin sees our "4 day off time" as a much expanded potential work force to be drafted PRN. And, sadly, so many nurses cave in and agree to work more, even when tired and still recovering from regularly scheduled shifts.
- When working your 12 hour shifts, do you get expanded times for "breaks" (the Tech's do)? Do you get to leave the floor and take a leisurely lunch break for at least an hour because you never get to take breaks? Nope. You just keep plowing on all day long, jumping everytime the call bells go off, or a doctor calls, or a transportation person needs help moving a patient, etc.... Do you get paid for the time you didn't take a break or lunch?
- How is your nurse:patient ratio? If staffing is "short" a 12-hour shift can really be exhausting AND create great potential for error if you are carrying a high patient load. And when counting patient load...don't forget to count all the admissions and discharges during your shift. I once worked at a hospital that promoted the folklore that "we staff a 4:1 ration." The truth was that you never had less than 5 or maybe 6 patients on days. And, during that day it was not unusual to discharge 2 or 3 and get 2 or 3 new patients. By my count, this really means that I had anywhere from 6 to 9 patients that long 12+ hour day.
- Do you like working like a "coal miner" - going in in the dark and comming home in the dark? Are you overweight or nutritionally deficient because you eat main meals at 10 PM after getting home so late and fall into bed to repeat the process the next day?
- Is your family missing you at dinner or other family time events that usually take place prior to your late arrival after a 12-14 hour shift which is almost 50% of your life?
- Think of it this way.... why should you work yourself down so hard for 3 days a week that it takes you a day or two to "recover" from working so hard? Work should fit into your life so that it takes some energy but not enough to where you loose several days trying to rest up so you can go and do it all over again!
These 12+ hour workday situations are now so common that it is quite hard to find a position that offers 8 hour days. But I have found one and I am very happy to be living what I consider a "normal" working life.
Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me sound off!

I have been waiting for a reply that addressed almost exactly how I feel. Other posts against were good also, I think yours comes closer. I continue to be puzzled, how so many bright intelligent people can be sold a bill of goods..that is against their interests and they turn around and defend it. Albeit, this is stricty my opinion, not meant to offend anybody with my perception. The sad thing is unsung heros here in this country died to establish the 8 hr day, and we are giving that right back. As we see the retirement age going higher and higher...think about what it will be like working 12 hours at age 70. Will you walker be able to endure?

This almost reminds me of our electoral system..If we are offered Chicken poopooh to vote for one one hand, and Cow poopooh on the other, we feel we have a choice. I myself want none of the above..

I think it would take several pages to attempt to refute your arguments.

NurseCherlove · Feb 8, 2008

I HATE the 12 hour shifts. To me, this is something hospital administration has "snowed" nurses into believing is a great benefit when it actually most benefits the hosptial. For example:
- When have your ever really worked a 12 hour shift? Most of the time it is a 13 or 14 hour shift. And yet, do you earn overtime? Nope, because you probably never get to the over 40 hour mark to start earning overtime. Benefit goes to the financial administrator of your hospital.
- When you are off (trying to recover!) how many times have you received desperate calls to work extra shifts because the unit is short? Hospital Admin sees our "4 day off time" as a much expanded potential work force to be drafted PRN. And, sadly, so many nurses cave in and agree to work more, even when tired and still recovering from regularly scheduled shifts.
- When working your 12 hour shifts, do you get expanded times for "breaks" (the Tech's do)? Do you get to leave the floor and take a leisurely lunch break for at least an hour because you never get to take breaks? Nope. You just keep plowing on all day long, jumping everytime the call bells go off, or a doctor calls, or a transportation person needs help moving a patient, etc.... Do you get paid for the time you didn't take a break or lunch?
- How is your nurse:patient ratio? If staffing is "short" a 12-hour shift can really be exhausting AND create great potential for error if you are carrying a high patient load. And when counting patient load...don't forget to count all the admissions and discharges during your shift. I once worked at a hospital that promoted the folklore that "we staff a 4:1 ration." The truth was that you never had less than 5 or maybe 6 patients on days. And, during that day it was not unusual to discharge 2 or 3 and get 2 or 3 new patients. By my count, this really means that I had anywhere from 6 to 9 patients that long 12+ hour day.
- Do you like working like a "coal miner" - going in in the dark and comming home in the dark? Are you overweight or nutritionally deficient because you eat main meals at 10 PM after getting home so late and fall into bed to repeat the process the next day?
- Is your family missing you at dinner or other family time events that usually take place prior to your late arrival after a 12-14 hour shift which is almost 50% of your life?
- Think of it this way.... why should you work yourself down so hard for 3 days a week that it takes you a day or two to "recover" from working so hard? Work should fit into your life so that it takes some energy but not enough to where you loose several days trying to rest up so you can go and do it all over again!
These 12+ hour workday situations are now so common that it is quite hard to find a position that offers 8 hour days. But I have found one and I am very happy to be living what I consider a "normal" working life.
Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me sound off!

AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!! Hospitals are some of the most greedy entities one will ever encounter!!! I am so sick of the CLUELESS big-wigs having ANY say in what we do or how we do it!

Ya know, I recently made the move to nights (as well as to another unit), thinking that I would get to have a little down time and just an overall, somewhat slower-paced 12 hours to deal with. But from the last few shifts I've worked, I am very seriously considering just getting out of this hospital work crap!!! It's too much. I am not the only one who feels that way either. One seasoned nurse the other night was on the verge of tears as she had something fairly acute/critical going on with like 4 of her patients and + had to complete 2 admissions. Myself, I had CP for like 10 straight hours the other night.

God, I want to do all I can for all of my patients, but I don't want to die from catecholamine intoxication in the process! Being a hospital nurse is just inhumane many times!! :angryfire

Sorry for the rant - didn't mean to hijack your post!

jjjoy, LPN · Feb 8, 2008

Working 8 hours make me feel like my day is compressed and I feel rushed, after all I have the same amount of patients working an 8 or 12 hour day.

But with a longer day, you also have more things to accomplish. Those additional 4 hours also come with more orders, more admits/discharges, etc. I guess the benefit is that you already know the patients so you don't need to start from scratch those last 4 hours.

Still, I'm wiped out after 8 hours and can't function on 12-hour shifts for more than a few days at a time. So continuity of care doesn't improve day-to-day. And, like some, the first day off after a couple of 12-hour shifts is a total wipe-out. Finally, since I can't get anything more done than eat and sleep between shifts, I almost feel like I never left.

gerry79 · Feb 8, 2008

Although many feel 12 hour shift are a sham, we do have a choice. I like working 12 days a month and having 18-19 days off. Yes 12 hour shifts can be exhausting, but so can 8 hour shifts. I would not want to have to come in 5 days in a row, I do enjoy my 4 days off. Thats the wonderful thing about nursing, we can choose to work odd hours. 12 hour shifts works for some, and not for others, for me I would have it no other way.