MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Mar 14, 2011

That basically applies to all fresh grad nurses whether you are US or PH educated. And yes experience is the best teacher though I'd still make a point that the education you received is an undeniable aspect of your practice.

O come on, of course not! not only do PH educated nurses need to acclimate to a new environment, familiarize with a culture not of their own, learn new facility protocols, adjust to US staffing patterns, utilize the patient education role more than the task of direct care giving... it's a long list. US educated nurses are trained in the model we already have here. They already have the upper hand. They don't even need to spend a lot of money on NCLEX-RN review classes. Why is it that we constantly read complaints about foreign nurses particularly from the Philippines requring more training and orientation than those educated locally? I'm sure they wouldn't be proud to say they went to UP or UST, would they?

lactamase · Mar 15, 2011

O come on, of course not! not only do PH educated nurses need to acclimate to a new environment, familiarize with a culture not of their own, learn new facility protocols, adjust to US staffing patterns, utilize the patient education role more than the task of direct care giving... it's a long list. US educated nurses are trained in the model we already have here. They already have the upper hand. They don't even need to spend a lot of money on NCLEX-RN review classes. Why is it that we constantly read complaints about foreign nurses particularly from the Philippines requring more training and orientation than those educated locally? I'm sure they wouldn't be proud to say they went to UP or UST, would they?

Why are you talking about practicing in US again? I commented on your statement about actual clinical practice brings a degree of confidence as a professional nurse. It applies to every one. And you're talking about PH educated nurses practicing in US again. Please move on, not every Filipino wants to practice there.

And of course, if you do vice versa. Bring a US educated nurse here and I'm pretty sure he/she will have a hell of a hard time adjusting to the culture, facility protocols, and nurse to patient ratio. It's just common sense.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Mar 15, 2011

OK let's wrap this up 'cause it's ridiculous. Fine, you get the last word, professor.

Accoucheur · Jul 6, 2011

It's funny to read these healthy discussions.I took a midwifery degree and I'm product of those cheap nursing schools,got thru a ladderized program and continued a nursing degree into a less cheap nursing school.So in the most basic sense,I'm a fresh graduate,waiting for the board exam results,and currently facing the dilemma of submitting to earthly pleasures of quick cash and money.

But after reading these wonderful discussions,my cause is not lost.By reading how we fresh graduates and products of business oriented schools and reflecting as to how the current situation of nursing education in our country is being viewed by fellow nurses,I must say that I learned a lot.

Through these debates,I've been enlightened once again.I mean,before I only know how to stay positive and try to set up goals that I need to follow,but now I have the parameters to achieve these goals.A good 15 minute read that started from a simple query about a Masters Degree program eventually lead to a much more needed information that most parents,students,businessmen,and government officials need to read.

Learning what to do and how to use it eventually abroad definitely gave me new insights on how to achieve these goals.

To all the nurses who replied to this topic,specially to Juan delacruz,thank you.

You've offered me a taste of reality that I needed to cure my blindness caused by a goalless ambition.

Mark Roxas · Jul 27, 2011

Hi guys.

I hope you all find time to read this. Especially you Mr. Juan dela Cruz. I am in despair.

So here's my dilemma right now. I am a 4th year student who's about to graduate next year of April. I'm studying at Angeles University Foundation in Pampanga, it is a Level III PAASCU Accredited School, recognized by CHED, It just got it's COD accreditation as well and I would like to believe that it has an international accreditation. Anyway, I have been really excited in planning for my future but I am having a lot of problems right now.

First, I have a US tourist visa, and it's going to expire 8 years from now but I find it to be useless in looking for jobs in the US? And I don't know. I think it's not gonna help at all. I don't really understand. Kindly enlighten me on this matter. Will it not help? At all?

Second, so I was confused whether it would be better if I take MSN here because it's going to add to my credentials. Like, it's going to make my resume a competent one but according to all your posts, it would be a lot better if I take it there. So I guess that's lesser burden on my part. Since I plan to volunteer then take MSN on Saturdays. Thanks for the tips.

Third, so I plan to volunteer at the only regional hospital in Region III because I think my dad knows someone who can get me in the hospital but just as a volunteer. I plan to work there for 6 months then move to a private hospital and volunteer for 9 months. Do you think it's gonna help? Or how many years of experience should I get before going to the US? If I ever go there what should I be expecting? How should I look for work? Please help me.

Last,, I BADLY NEED YOUR HELP. I NEED TO REDIRECT MY LIFE. I need a plan. Something that can motivate me to keep aiming for my goal. I need a realistic dream so please help me?????

Mark Roxas · Jul 27, 2011

Mr Juan dela cruz I posted a question on the issue MSN vs MAN. Kindly look into it if you find time. Please, I need your help sir.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jul 27, 2011

Hi guys.
I hope you all find time to read this. Especially you Mr. Juan dela Cruz. I am in despair.

Well, I could offer some advice with the disclaimer that I don't know everything especially your circumstances. First, I don't think there is a nursing school in the Philippines that is internationally-accredited. In fact, I don't even believe that there is such a thing as international accreditation for nursing programs. The Philippine government has CHED and there are also a couple of independent accrediting bodies that monitor the standards among nursing schools in the Philippines. Here in the US, we also have a couple of accrediting bodies for our nursing programs but neither grants accreditation to any of the schools you have in the Philippines.

Second, since your visa only allows you to visit and not work in the US, I would advice you against trying your luck in finding a job here. Retrogression is still in place and the only realistically accessible visa is an H1B which you don't qualify for so you really can't convert your status to a legally acceptable means of gaining employment in the US at the current time given what I know about your visa based on your post.

Third, a graduate degree such as MSN will definitely add to your knowledge and skill base wherever you take it. The program quality will vary and that's the case even here in the US. There are some pretty bad programs here too but there are also many excellent ones. The more important question to answer is why you are pursuing the degree. Here in the US, the major purpose of a master's degree is for a nurse to be able to specialize whether as a clinician (NP, CNS, CRNA, or CNM), as an educator, or as an administrator or manager.

I have been away from the Philippines since 1995 so to be honest, I'm not familiar with the trends in graduate degrees for nurses in the Philippines. I know some have moved on to pursue master's degrees even though they just graduated from their BSN as their way to maintain learning in the setting of having little to no opportunity of actually finding a job. I am in no position to make an unbiased assessment of whether that's a good idea or not especially as it pertains to being more marketable as a prospective employee but the logical reasoning is it could open doors that could otherwise be shut to someone who only has a BSN. Again, who knows...

Fourth, I agree that the most important priority for you at the present time is to find a paying job as a nurse after you graduate. Connections, as you already mentioned, are very important. That's how things go in the Philippines and to some extent, here in the US as well. Volunteering at a hospital to gain experience has been a scourge for newly graduated nurses there. My immediate reaction would be to say that this is not a good idea. One, how is the volunteer nurse covered if something goes wrong with a patient on your watch and you get blamed? two, it is blatant exploitation of a fully-qualified professional to be made to work and not get paid. However, I don't know what I would have done if I was in the shoes of all you young nurses out there so I shouldn't be quick to judge.

Anyway, I don't know if I helped at all but I wish you luck.

Mark Roxas · Jul 27, 2011

Sir yes, it was able to help. Thank you very much I was waiting for your reply.

Well, I plan to study MSN because I wanna have a more competent credentials over the other aspirants and I also wish to eventually get my own specialization after acquiring hospital experience in the US. I am choosing whether I should take anesthetist, nurse practitioner, or clinical nurse specialist? I read that an MSN is a requirement and few years of experience in order for one to enroll in a course for nursing specializations.

Sir, what about ISO? I think that makes a school credible enough to produce quality graduates? and does it not serve as an international accreditation?

Anyway, my sister in law knows someone from a hospital in the US. Do you think, a hospital would be interested in absorbing me without gaining experience from convalescent homes there?

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jul 27, 2011

Well, I plan to study MSN because I wanna have a more competent credentials over the other aspirants and I also wish to eventually get my own specialization after acquiring hospital experience in the US. I am choosing whether I should take anesthetist, nurse practitioner, or clinical nurse specialist? I read that an MSN is a requirement and few years of experience in order for one to enroll in a course for nursing specializations.

At this point, I would wait until you actually have the experience before you make a decision on getting specialized. In fact, I would even venture to say without sounding offensive that you should wait until you could even get a chance to work in the US given the futility of being granted an employment visa during this current economic climate in the US. Hopefully, when you do get clinical experience, you can easily make a decision on what specialization will fit your career goal. Yes, MSN programs are offered as a way to be specialized (at least here in the US) and there are specific MSN programs offered for each particular specialization or area of advanced practice you mentioned.

Sir, what about ISO? I think that makes a school credible enough to produce quality graduates? and does it not serve as an international accreditation?

My understanding of ISO accreditation is that it only addresses the business side of how corporations operate. Non-government owned universities in the Philippines are ran by for-profit corporations and ISO accreditation seems to be a badge of honor sought by many of these institutions. I am positive that it does not carry that much weight in how these institutions are viewed in terms of academic excellence from a global perspective. However, in the Philippines, this form of accreditation may mean something more.

Anyway, my sister in law knows someone from a hospital in the US. Do you think, a hospital would be interested in absorbing me without gaining experience from convalescent homes there?

You don't need to work in a nursing home or a convalescent home first before being able to get a job in a hospital here in the US. When times were good, nurses were being hired in hospitals including specialty units like ER and ICU straight out of nursing school. That rarely happens now. Some new nurses have decided to take jobs in nursing homes just to be employed while hoping that maybe they can transfer to a hospital later when job openings allow. I am not saying that nursing homes are bad though, there are nurses who work in these places for their entire career.

It is always good to know someone who can help with getting a job and like I said previously, that works here in the US too. However, connections can only go as far. When the US government says that no additional visas will be issued other than the small number that is allowed each year, any attempt to bring in foreign nurses outside of that restriction will be tough even for a CEO of a major hospital system. Your disadvantage is that thousands of other foreign nurses have filed for immigrant visas ahead of you and it could take many years for each one to be approved and granted.

nurseKRAM · Aug 19, 2011

i need an advice regarding to my concern especially from Mr. Juan dela Cruz.

I am a filipino nurse (graduated 2010) and i will be enrolling for the MSN program this coming november. i will be taking my masters degree for no other reason but for my own personal and professional growth. I am currently applying in several hospital here in the PH to gain at least some hospital experience. The only nursing job i had after getting my license was being a private nurse in Thailand for six months.

I know that the US is not what most people think if how it is. I have a lot of relatives there living in CA. My mother's immigrant visa is expected to arrive within 5 years as she will be the last to get it due to her age. My mom's brother is expected to be in CA by this year and everyone expects that after which (in a few years or so) my aunt and other uncle will be following and the last one would be my mom. However, i will be turning 21 this year and that means by the time my mom will get her immigrant visa i will surely not be able to go with her in the US. That means that I will be waiting for ages for my own petition to come.

I am currently in dilemma for my career plans.

I decided to apply to the biggest and advanced hospital in Visayas-Mindanao region which is also a JCI accredited institution but they would not allow their staff nurses to pursue their master's degree and take any international exams. However, in what I have noticed every 2 years they conduct a massive hiring for nurses since there is continuous and somehow a massive form of resignation since most of their staff easily finds a way to be employed in a foreign country (mostly in the middle east and canada) after they gained experience in such institution.

I really wanted to pursue my masters but I do not know if I should since I am also aspiring to be employed with the said hospital.

PLAN A: to be hired in the said institution and apply abroad after gaining experience.

PLAN B: pursue my masters and gain some volunteer experience in any hospital and take foreign exams.

I am not willing to wait for my petition (to the US) to get approved. I need to find ways to work outside the country but I also need professional growth while I am still in the PH. I am considering cross-immigration and the last country will be the US since I need to be with my family.

PS: Thank you everyone!!! I enjoyed reading everything and I picked up a few useful stuff...

ciao!!!

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Aug 19, 2011

i need an advice regarding to my concern especially from Mr. Juan dela Cruz.
I am a filipino nurse (graduated 2010) and i will be enrolling for the MSN program this coming november. i will be taking my masters degree for no other reason but for my own personal and professional growth. I am currently applying in several hospital here in the PH to gain at least some hospital experience. The only nursing job i had after getting my license was being a private nurse in Thailand for six months.
I know that the US is not what most people think if how it is. I have a lot of relatives there living in CA. My mother's immigrant visa is expected to arrive within 5 years as she will be the last to get it due to her age. My mom's brother is expected to be in CA by this year and everyone expects that after which (in a few years or so) my aunt and other uncle will be following and the last one would be my mom. However, i will be turning 21 this year and that means by the time my mom will get her immigrant visa i will surely not be able to go with her in the US. That means that I will be waiting for ages for my own petition to come.
I am currently in dilemma for my career plans.
I decided to apply to the biggest and advanced hospital in Visayas-Mindanao region which is also a JCI accredited institution but they would not allow their staff nurses to pursue their master's degree and take any international exams. However, in what I have noticed every 2 years they conduct a massive hiring for nurses since there is continuous and somehow a massive form of resignation since most of their staff easily finds a way to be employed in a foreign country (mostly in the middle east and canada) after they gained experience in such institution.
I really wanted to pursue my masters but I do not know if I should since I am also aspiring to be employed with the said hospital.
PLAN A: to be hired in the said institution and apply abroad after gaining experience.
PLAN B: pursue my masters and gain some volunteer experience in any hospital and take foreign exams.
I am not willing to wait for my petition (to the US) to get approved. I need to find ways to work outside the country but I also need professional growth while I am still in the PH. I am considering cross-immigration and the last country will be the US since I need to be with my family.
PS: Thank you everyone!!! I enjoyed reading everything and I picked up a few useful stuff...
ciao!!!

Getting a job would be my priority if I were you. I would pursue a job in this hospital you are talking about. When I graduated in 1991, I was tempted to apply to an agency to help me go to the US right away just like many of classmates who took the CGFNS immediately after they got licensed in the Philippines. But I said to myself that maybe I need more experience as a nurse first. I actually ended up working at PGH in Manila which at the time, required all its nurses to sign a 2-year employment commitment. We were not prevented from pursuing a master's degree if we worked at PGH, in fact, we could easily enroll in the MAN program at UP Manila since were were already employed by the UP System. I have no regrets about working in the Philippines as a nurse first. I found my experience at PGH to be very valuable in how easy my transition to working in the US became. I was already confident in caring for patients at the bedside and have already gained experience in bedside procedures such as IV starts, Foley catheter and NG tube insertions in the 2 1/2 years I worked at PGH. I could attend to a code blue because I worked in the ICU at PGH. Master's degrees can wait. They are always going to be an option for you and it will be better if you are entering graduate school with nursing experience to back you up.

albinahaide · Nov 10, 2011

I've read of something like an "accreditation process" to make your MAN degree equivalent with a US MSN. Though I've heard it's only available for MAN program of UST and UP.
The local nursing author Udan has that in her profile.
I'm not really sure if it's true. What do you know about that?

my mentor told me that one need to be an expert on a certain field for his/her man degree to be converted to msn like Udan....