NCSBN rules out Philippines as NCLEX site - page 2

just a sad update to other filipinos. american nurses' boards won't accredit rp grads this post is not meant to incite arguments, but to inform.... Read More

  1. by   pinoy_guy
    the prc manipulated grades creating a situation where

    passers become flunkers,
    flunkers become passers


    http://www.manilatimes.net/national/...61029top1.html

    . . .

    not many know, however, that:

    * the licenses of those who are eventually found by ongoing investigations to have benefited from or got involved in the leakage will be revoked.
    (this pertains to the passers whose names are on the list of reviewees in the final coaching of the 3 review centers.)

    * making flunkers out of passers and passers out of flunkers--the court of appeals had ruled that the 1,687 passing examinees had wrongly benefited from the prc's recomputation of test grades and should be made to retake the nle while 1,186 examinees whom the prc had originally passed were removed from the list of board passers after the october 13 recomputation of test grades.

    * the united states' national council of state boards of nursing, while officially not making public comments about the prc and june nle mess, have told president arroyo and nclex task force head and commission on filipinos overseas, among other officials, that 16 us states are eyeing the june 2006 batch of filipino *****s with suspicion.
    (i wonder where we can find this list of 16 us states? maybe our kababayans can apply in states not on this list.)

    * that the ncsbn officials, led by its president, ms. faith fields, have told philippine officials clearly--and the philippine *****s' association obliquely in ms. fields' keynote speech to them at the pna assembly--that the granting of the philippine request that nclex tests be held in the philippines will happen "in due time" depending on how satisfactorily the current nle leakage scandal is settled.

    * the pro*retake petitioners defeated at the court of appeals are taking the case to the supreme court.
    (this is the bigger problem**we don't know when the issue will be fully settled if it reaches the supreme court. and the supreme court ruling might be useless if its final decision does not appease the cgfns/ichp, the ncsbn, and the 16 us states bon.)

    * the philippine *****s association in the united kingdom is upset and anxious about the way the nle leakage scandal has been handled by the prc and warn that the prestige of filipino *****s in general "and the integrity and credibility of the [philippine] licensure examination," has suffered.
    (this contradicts the oath*taker interviewed in the tv news program 24 oras where he said that his sister in the uk claimed there is no news nor issue in the uk regarding the leakage. )

    . . .

    under the prc modernization law, the commission has a mandate to establish and maintain a high standard of admission to the practice of all professions and to at all times ensure and safeguard the integrity of all licensure examinations.

    the prc is left no room for maneuver. it has no discretion to compromise standards. it has no discretion to manipulate scores. it has no discretion to pass those who deserve to fail and fail those who deserve to pass.

    observers now wonder how that mistake could have been committed--unless there was an effort to manipulate the results.

    . . .

    the prc, by its executives' own admission, did rule and take steps to manipulate results in the june 2006 nle through their recomputations and reassignment of percentages for tests 3 and 5.

    . . .

    but those who have passed and taken their oath could still be stripped of their professional status as *****s. an nbi investigation is still going on and those who were originally judged by the prc itself to have benefited from the leakage could go back to their "fail status."

    . . .

    news of the leakage, according to brion, had already caught the world's attention, particularly the united states and united kingdom (uk), among other countries, where filipino *****s are highly in demand.

    the us for one, brion said has temporarily suspended its plan of setting up an examination center in the philippines for *****s aspiring to work in america.

    according to brion, the british government might also imposed additional requirements on filipino *****s entering the uk for the first time.

    brion also noted that many other countries are competing with the philippines in supplying *****s to western countries, and if the test leakage controversy is not dealt with properly, filipino *****s might lose out to those from other countries.
    (this i can confirm. a lot of *****s from the uk are applying for jobs in the us. there had been an influx of *****s from mainland china and hong kong to the us hospitals for the past few years.)
    Last edit by pinoy_guy on Oct 28, '06 : Reason: I wonder why the board is treating "n u r s e" as a forbidden word,
  2. by   suzanne4
    When there are issues with a licensing exam in the US, no matter what the field, the entire exam must be retaken and not just parts. At this point, it does not matter if a nurse gets a license from the PRC based on that exam, it is not going to be accepted in the US.

    The Philippines is free to do as it pleases, they wish to send nurses to other countries, but the other countries do not need to take them. The foreign nurse wishing to work in the US must meet the requirements of the US, that is why the NLE exam was never required to work in the US in the first place.
    But because of the controversy with this exam, the only way to clear anyone's name is to retake the exam, the entire exam.

    Sure, you may get over to the US, but you are always going to be looking over your shoulder.......will I get caught? And USCIS does deport, has deported, and will continue to deport. And what if you purchase a home and a car here? And do not even have time to sell them? Immigration does not care what you were able to purchase here, only that you could be in violation of US immigration laws. Adn they do not take excuses. "I thought....." does not work over here.

    This forum is read by US employers, as well as from other countries. They all know exactly what is going on, it has not been swept under the carpet as so many of you think.

    CGFNS until August or so had just a few sentences in their handbook about irregularities with items, now they have devoted an entire page in the VSC Handbook. If there were not so many issues that have come up, you would not be seeing a thing about it.

    The UK already has a freeze in hiring foreign nurses, if you have checked.
    If the Philippines cannot even get it right with their own exam, how in the world do you think that they will be able to hold a US licensing exam there?
    Get realistic, and think about it. We all know about the issues that have been going on in Hong Kong with the exam as well. And mist if you know exactly what I am speaking of, the special reviews held the day or so before the exam in Hong Kong.

    And as I keep saying, working in the US is a privilege, it is not the right of anyone. And you can easily lose that privilege. Do not think that because you make it to the US, you will be okay........reviews are always being done.
  3. by   pinoy_guy
    i know some of the no retake people hate mr. tadle's guts, but i think everybody should listen to his reasoning...because he said he was taking the case to the supreme court.

    nursing 0606 and bar 0903: a sharp contrast
    by prof. rene luis m. tadle and atty. cheryl l. daytec-yangot
    sunday, october 29, 2006

    http://www.manilatimes.net/national/...61029top2.html

    prc powers versus supreme court powers

    the board of nursing (bon) chairman insists that the examinees do not have to retake the leaked tests. she invokes what the supreme court did--that is, it excluded mercantile law. for the bon to claim that it can do what the supreme court did is the height of arrogance. the prc and bon are not comparable to the supreme court. the court promulgates the rules for admission to the bar, a power granted by no less than the philippine constitution. it has sole discretion to determine the criterion standards to determine the competencies of the examinees. when it disregarded mercantile law in the 2003 bar, it was acting within the ambit of its powers. in the case of the bon, it is not free to do that. the nursing act of 2002 unequivocally provides that it should prepare questions on the broad areas of nursing. it is not at liberty to disregard a test if doing so will narrow down the coverage of the exam. definitely, what it did--practically excluding test v--violated the law. it did not conduct an exam on the broad areas of nursing.
  4. by   pinoy_guy
    for the people spousing no retake under the banner of justice.

    manila nclex hinges on how mess is settled
    sunday, october 29, 2006

    http://www.manilatimes.net/national/...61029top3.html

    competence is the issue

    it was in her meetings with dr. ang and the president that ms. fields more clearly said about the "to retake or not to retake" the leakage-tainted june nle that "competence, not justice, is the issue."

    this is with reference to the argument of the nonretake faction that it would be unjust to examinees who did not benefit from the leakage and passed to be made to take the nle again. the problem with that argument is that it will take a long time to determine who really benefited or did not. also, a retake will more dramatically tell the world of nurse-employers here and abroad that examinees of the june 2006 batch who passed the retake exams have passed without a cloud of doubt about their competence and integrity.
    there you have it.

    straight from the ncsbn head's mouth.
  5. by   suzanne4
    And by granting licenses base on this past exam, they have just made it impossible for the Philippines to be a test site.
  6. by   pinoy_guy
    Quote from suzanne4
    The Philippines is free to do as it pleases, they wish to send nurses to other countries, but the other countries do not need to take them.
    ack.


    Quote from suzanne4
    Sure, you may get over to the US, but you are always going to be looking over your shoulder.......will I get caught? And USCIS does deport, has deported, and will continue to deport.
    this is the painful truth.

    they might not catch you at the time of commission, but they'll get you eventually.

    Eventually is more painful than Now.

    and if the deportation is due to Fraud, there is the 10-year or lifetime ban to consider.


    Quote from suzanne4
    This forum is read by US employers, as well as from other countries. They all know exactly what is going on, it has not been swept under the carpet as so many of you think.
    the news is not only in this forum.

    it's all over the Internet.

    sadly, there's no focus on how to really rectify the error and move on.

    only BandAid solutions proffered by politicians, and now administered by a court.

    there is still a big question mark if the solution will be acceptable.

    otherwise...dignity & pride will prevent a satisfactory solution, and the June 2006 batch will be the sacrificial lambs.

    the December 2006 batch might also be involved. there is still no Philippine BON to make the NLE questions, as required by law.

    if this is the case, then the December 2006 batch might also bear a mantle of suspicion.

    the only people spousing the solution implied by CGFNS & NCSBN--Mr. Tadle--had been getting death threats. how democratic is that?


    Quote from suzanne4
    And by granting licenses base on this past exam, they have just made it impossible for the Philippines to be a test site.
    the NCSBN people were very diplomatic about it. they tried subtle hints. then stronger hints.

    but I guess they won't come out and say things loudly and clearly.

    they won't meddle in the sovereignty of a democratic country.

    and thus the boil festers.
  7. by   pinoy_guy
    it would be interesting to revisit this thread 1 year from now (when the June 2006 RNs will definitely know if ICHP will give them VisaScreen Certificates) and 6 to 7 years from now (when these people hopefully apply for US Citizenship).

    but from the wording in the VisaScreen Application Handbook, they can never be 100% sure.

    the sad part is that the PRC does not provide an avenue for people who want a complete retake.

    and we still have the vacant BON to consider--pointing to a doubtful December 2006 NLE.

  8. by   Rep
    Too bad, the PRC should have do the most sensible thing is to conduct a retake and there would be no problems now facing the June 2006 BAtch.

    We Filipinos are so proud that we can not admit that we made some mistakes and do the most rightful thing. Instead we tried to cover all our backs and insist that nothing wrong had happened.

    Well, the things that PRC does can only happened in the Philippines and most of the June 2006 think that it won't create problems.

    WAKE UP GUYS! Open your eyes, think outside of the box and see the bigger picture. Most of you want to work in the US and "things only in the Philippines" can not work in the US.

    Too bad!!!
  9. by   Rep
    Quote from pinoy_guy
    it would be interesting to revisit this thread 1 year from now (when the June 2006 RNs will definitely know if ICHP will give them VisaScreen Certificates) and 6 to 7 years from now (when these people hopefully apply for US Citizenship).

    but from the wording in the VisaScreen Application Handbook, they can never be 100% sure.

    the sad part is that the PRC does not provide an avenue for people who want a complete retake.

    and we still have the vacant BON to consider--pointing to a doubtful December 2006 NLE.

    The PRC could just say we are going to do a retake but there is too much pride involved because they made mistakes and don't want to correct it in the most sensible way.
  10. by   Rep
    Exactly!

    Quote from suzanne4
    When there are issues with a licensing exam in the US, no matter what the field, the entire exam must be retaken and not just parts. At this point, it does not matter if a nurse gets a license from the PRC based on that exam, it is not going to be accepted in the US.

    The Philippines is free to do as it pleases, they wish to send nurses to other countries, but the other countries do not need to take them. The foreign nurse wishing to work in the US must meet the requirements of the US, that is why the NLE exam was never required to work in the US in the first place.
    But because of the controversy with this exam, the only way to clear anyone's name is to retake the exam, the entire exam.

    Sure, you may get over to the US, but you are always going to be looking over your shoulder.......will I get caught? And USCIS does deport, has deported, and will continue to deport. And what if you purchase a home and a car here? And do not even have time to sell them? Immigration does not care what you were able to purchase here, only that you could be in violation of US immigration laws. Adn they do not take excuses. "I thought....." does not work over here.

    This forum is read by US employers, as well as from other countries. They all know exactly what is going on, it has not been swept under the carpet as so many of you think.

    CGFNS until August or so had just a few sentences in their handbook about irregularities with items, now they have devoted an entire page in the VSC Handbook. If there were not so many issues that have come up, you would not be seeing a thing about it.

    The UK already has a freeze in hiring foreign nurses, if you have checked.
    If the Philippines cannot even get it right with their own exam, how in the world do you think that they will be able to hold a US licensing exam there?
    Get realistic, and think about it. We all know about the issues that have been going on in Hong Kong with the exam as well. And mist if you know exactly what I am speaking of, the special reviews held the day or so before the exam in Hong Kong.

    And as I keep saying, working in the US is a privilege, it is not the right of anyone. And you can easily lose that privilege. Do not think that because you make it to the US, you will be okay........reviews are always being done.
  11. by   suzanne4
    And to claify what I mentioned above, you will be always looking over your shoulder. Is INS watching me now? That is the name of immigration in the US, Immigration and Naturalization Service. And they do watch.

    And they will deport even if you have a green card. CGFNS can revoke the Visa Screen Certificate at anytime and they so right in the handbook. They do, and then your green card gets cancelled, and you are forced to leave the country. And you do not get advanced notice, they come to your door, and you are escorted out of the country.

    No time to do anything. And they not care about your belongings...and your family.
  12. by   pinoy_guy
    Quote from suzanne4
    and they will deport even if you have a green card.
    i've read of naturalized us citizens being deported, their us citizenship cancelled, because of fraudulent information in their green card application.


    for the interested parties:

    http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/obje...chapter/2/118/

    [color="sandybrown"]1. the risk of removal from the u.s.

    if something happened in your past that makes you removable or deportable, you should not apply for u.s. citizenship -- or, at the very least, you should talk to a lawyer before doing so. the citizenship process may uncover whatever it is you're hiding and send you directly into removal proceedings.

    perhaps your green card should never have been approved in the first place because you lied on the application, or maybe you've committed a crime that no one at uscis seems to have noticed yet.

    either way, applying for citizenship gives uscis a chance to review your whole immigration history, from the time you entered the united states to the present. if something isn't quite right, you could find yourself fighting deportation in immigration court.


    in this section, we look separately at the two most common types of problems:

    a green card that shouldn't have been approved in the first place, and
    a green card that uscis can take away because you've done something that violates its terms.


    a. if your green card application shouldn't have been approved

    uscis would be the first to admit that it makes mistakes, sometimes approving people for green cards who were not eligible for them. you probably already know if you committed outright fraud -- that is, lied or deliberately covered something up -- on your green card application. common types of fraud include faking a marriage, hiding a criminal conviction in one's home country, and creating false documents to show a sponsor who doesn't exist.

    the next two articles are interesting.

    http://immigration.about.com/library...y/aa102599.htm

    question #9: can citizenship be revoked?

    carl shusterman: absolutely. first, if, within two years of becoming naturalized the ins finds that you have obtained naturalization by misrepresentation, the agency can revoke your citizenship administratively. whether this is constitutional is an issue which is currently being decided in the federal courts. what is more clear, is that the justice department can file a suit in federal court to denaturalize a person.
    because naturalized u.s. citizens, like native-born u.s. citizens, are not subject to deportation, a naturalized citizen cannot be deported for conviction of any crime.

    however, naturalization may be revoked (a person may be subject to "denaturalization") through a court or administrative proceeding. 8 u.s.c. 1451. the government can institute proceedings to revoke naturalization in cases where:

    1) naturalization was "illegally procured or procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation";

    . . .

    5) the naturalized citizen has been convicted of unlawful procurement of naturalization under 18 u.s.c. 1425.


    the ins may move to administratively "correct, reopen, alter, modify, or vacate" a naturalization order when:

    1) the application for naturalization was granted in error;
    or

    2) there is evidence that was not known at the time of naturalization that would have had a material effect of the outcome of the naturalization and would have proven that the application was based on fraud or misrepresentation or would have shown that the applicant was not eligible for naturalization. 8 u.s.c. 1451(h); 8 c.f.r. 340.1.

    the ins must serve the naturalized citizen with a notice of intent to reopen no later than 2 years after the individual has become a u.s. citizen.

    a criminal conviction may present a problem for a naturalized citizen if it occurred prior to the date the person naturalized and the individual concealed the conviction or the ins was unaware of the conviction. if the conviction occurs after the date of naturalization, there is little risk that the naturalized citizen will lose their u.s. citizenship.
    from these, it is clear that the uscis will review the papers on application for the green card, and on application for us citizenship. the danger period extends up to 2 years after naturalization. after 2 years, the risk is lessened.

    however, i don't think i would want this worry over my head. 5 years is a long time, enough to build a life in the us. to be suddenly deported will really suck.


    since "section 343 of the illegal immigration reform and immigrant responsibility act (iirira) of 1996 requires specific healthcare professionals born outside of the u.s. to successfully complete a screening program before they can receive either a permanent or temporary occupational visa including trade nafta status." meaning the visascreen, revocation of the visascreen certificate will in essence negate the "permanent or temporary occupational visa."


    [color="mediumturquoise"]revocation of cgfns/ichp visascreen™ certificates and 212(r) certified statements

    grounds for revocation

    the commission on graduates of foreign nursing schools ("cgfns") may revoke a cgfns/ichp visascreen™ certificate or 212(r) certified statement if cgfns learns that:

    1. the applicant was not eligible for such a certificate or statement when it was granted
    . . .
    3. the applicant obtained or tried to obtain a certificate or statement by fraud or by misrepresentation of a material fact
    4. the applicant took actions that would compromise the integrity of one of the elements of the certification process, or of the certification process itself.

    when it revokes a certificate, cgfns/ichp informs appropriate authorities and organizations that the revocation occurred.

    cgfns may revoke a cgfns/ichp visascreen™ certificate or 212(r) certified statement even if the validity period of the certificate or statement has expired.

    it is the policy of cgfns/ichp that a person who is not eligible for a cgfns/ichp visascreen™ certificate or statement should not benefit from the fact that a cgfns/ichp visascreen™ may have been, for whatever reason, mistakenly issued.
    fascinating reading for a rainy day.
  13. by   corrupted_caregiver
    I think that the United States should release an official position on the issue. And unless US hospitals, NCSBN, and CGFNS have not release official written statements, the infos here regarding the "leakage scandal" in the June 2006 PNLE will all be opinions. All we hear are hearsays. So to get closure, NCSBN, CGFNS, and US hospitlas should release an official written statement that they will not accept June 2006 passers unless they undergo a total retake. And that will put to justice the posts written in the Philippine Nursing Forum regarding the June 2006 PNLE.

    All of the infos have been mind wrecking to many who visited the site and instead of having answers, all they come up leads to more questions. The one posted about visa screen in the CGFNS site is helpful but there is no final decision yet leading to a 50 - 50 chance again to those june 2006 passers who want to apply for visa screen. And the news of US hospitals not accepting new passers has not been verified nor official released for the information of those new nurses leading to more disarray.

    Filipinos has a way I think and I know that US does not actually care for the Philippines. So whether the courts here decided, they should release their positions regarding the issue so the applicants will know the path they should take, with certainty. There will always be two sides of the coin, those who are happy and those who are not in the court's decision. Generally, I think we are just not good losers as we may call it, because our "ugali" always say that if don't get our way, we complain.

    A lot more questions instead of answers. I think it's time that we turn that around.

    Respectfully Yours,

    Corrupted

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