Job availability for nurse educators

ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN · May 3, 2010

It is interesting that we all know that educators are not well paid and we do it because we love it. The reality is we do have to pay our bills just like anyone else. If there is a nursing shortage because of having a nurse educator shortage, it would seem that supply and demand might come into play. I have one more year of the nurse educator MSN program and wish I had done the NP focus instead so I could have kept my options open.
I teach part time clinicals and have a part time staff nurse job too that is flexible enough so I can teach and I have to pick up extra shifts where ever I can in between semesters too. I also have a student loan to think about....and for all this they want a PhD too? I have to say I don't do it for the money, but with a nursing shortage they do tend to pay more for nursing staff to attract them with sign on bonuses, why is this not done for nursing faculty?

If you had it to do again, would you have chosen the NP route with a certificate in nursing education? I have less than a year to finish my BSN and I am trying to figure out which option will make me more marketable.

No necessarily more marketable in the education sector, but in the event I am unable to find a teaching position, I would have something else to fall back on. I am still struggling with this.

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · May 5, 2010

Kudos to all who have identified all of the issues that are driving our continuing shortage of nursing faculty...I only hope that something is going to make this better in the future. It won't help me - because I am older than dirt already & decided long ago that academia was not for me. It moves too slow & dealing with students (instead of nurses) scares me to death.

I love my job. I have been happily ensconced in staff development roles for the last twenty-plus years... with salary that is always more than my peers in academia. It's primarily focused on design & development of education and training programs including eLearning. I get to use the latest technology & software to develop multi-media online courses. I provide support for nurse managers who need more efficient ways to validate, track & monitor nursing competency. My job is never boring. I get to work with wonderfully talented people to ensure high quality safe patient care. I can't think of anything better.

I would encourage potential educators to be sure to obtain a clinically-focused Masters with a specialization in education. Most online programs are geared toward 'generalist' MSNs instead. You may also have to scrounge around to find courses needed to provide you with the high tech skills you need for today's staff development environment... the days of the old 'stand up' educator are long gone.

cnburton · May 5, 2010

If you had it to do again, would you have chosen the NP route with a certificate in nursing education? I have less than a year to finish my BSN and I am trying to figure out which option will make me more marketable.
No necessarily more marketable in the education sector, but in the event I am unable to find a teaching position, I would have something else to fall back on. I am still struggling with this.

Yes! I would do the NP and then get a post masters certificate in teaching, if I were younger and doing it again. Too bad I didn't find this site a few years ago.

I do believe the clinically competent part is vital as health care is rapidly changing, but I also think you need to know how to teach, what is the best way to help an adult learner etc. The factor for NP's is in the future the requirement will be do obtain a DNP and since that is who is the preferred teacher, perhaps some classes will be designed into the curriculum that involves learning.

RNTutor, BSN, RN · May 6, 2010

Hi all,

I found reading this discussion really interesting...I tutor RN students now, but have definitely had the thought in my mind of going back to school for MSN/PhD and getting a faculty position someday. I had intended to do it in my first life (Clin Psych), but life happens and I became a nurse instead.

Anyway, I have heard a different reason for this whole problem. Basically, that compared to other majors, nursing school is not very cost-effective. For example, the Univ spends money on disposable materials for practice (syringes, foleys, etc), pays a ton of money to set up an interactive lab (the more high-tech, the more expensive), and yet has to maintain relatively small teacher to student ratios (maybe 10:1 max in clinicals?).

Compare that situation to, say, Psychology where you can fit several hundred students into an auditorium for Intro Psych, and you can see the significant cost difference. Both psych and nursing students are paying the same tuition (although maybe the nursing student has an additional lab fee).

I would be really interested to see what you all think about this explanation for the faculty shortages...as well as any ideas on how to either make nurse training more cost-effective (without sacrificing quality) or to in some other way make it more attractive for schools to invest more money into the nursing programs. Obviously, "because it's the right thing to do" has not been working so far

cnburton · May 6, 2010

I know that finding good clinical sites for students is one of the issues and even with different shifts, there may be students of various levels from the BSN and ADN program on the same unit....which makes it sometimes more work for staff and then the patient has to answer alot of questions multiple times when they don't feel so great in the first place. This is where the technology comes in, they have simulated patients now that do so much, it is amazing. You can put in a foley, IV, NG, feel pulses listen to heart and lung sounds and practice emergency procedures, like CPR, ACLS etc. The technology is expensive. Nursing requires cognitive, affective and psychomotor skills and you can't get all this from reading a book or listening to a lecture. I would imagine it is like this with other health profession training ( ie MD, PA, Paramedic, surgical tech , etc).

I have 8 students in clinical and it is difficult, I can't imagine 10. The students do have lab fees as well. I think with the economy everyone is trying to contain costs and it is difficult for the higher educational institutions to find the funds for a 75k simulated man , but heck with so many people out of work, you could advertise for paid models to work with students for much less although you'd have to pay me alot to put in a NG.

llg, PhD, RN · May 6, 2010

Anyway, I have heard a different reason for this whole problem. Basically, that compared to other majors, nursing school is not very cost-effective. For example, the Univ spends money on disposable materials for practice (syringes, foleys, etc), pays a ton of money to set up an interactive lab (the more high-tech, the more expensive), and yet has to maintain relatively small teacher to student ratios (maybe 10:1 max in clinicals?).
Compare that situation to, say, Psychology where you can fit several hundred students into an auditorium for Intro Psych, and you can see the significant cost difference. Both psych and nursing students are paying the same tuition (although maybe the nursing student has an additional lab fee).

I am sure this is a big part of the situation. Nursing education is very expensive for a college to provide -- and undergraduate tuition is not high enough to fully cover the costs for the necessary small class sizes. Also, because most nursing undergraduate faculty are not "big time" researchers, their salaries are not being subsidized by research grants, unlike some of the salaries in some other disciplines. The small classes and the small amount of research subsidies really hurts the bottom line. That also ties into the fact that many clinical instructors are only at the "instructor" rank because they don't have doctoral degrees and many are only employed as "part time" or "adjunct" faculty in order to save the school the money from paying them full time benefits.

It's all tied in together ... all leading to a bad situation.

JennRN1027 · Aug 22, 2010

:lol2: I graduated from Walden this past March. I loved the program it was great. A few months after I graduated I had two schools contact me. I start teaching clinicals for both schools in the fall. If I can get on full time I will make 88,000. As a bedisde nurse I only make 32 an hour. The jobs are out there the problem is usually you have to start from the bottom. Which means part time until a positions opens.

Good Luck

mtdnk · Aug 25, 2010

I received my MSN-Specialization in Nursing Education from Walden in 2007. I could have gotten a full-time teaching position at a local community college.....for 1/2 of my current salary. Uhmm.....no thanks. I continue with my full time job, and "on the side as a hobby" I am a clinical instructor. I was able to get in at a university since I have a MSN. I do love teaching, but it doesn't pay the bills.

dorimar, BSN, RN · Aug 29, 2010

Kudos to all who have identified all of the issues that are driving our continuing shortage of nursing faculty...I only hope that something is going to make this better in the future. It won't help me - because I am older than dirt already & decided long ago that academia was not for me. It moves too slow & dealing with students (instead of nurses) scares me to death.
I love my job. I have been happily ensconced in staff development roles for the last twenty-plus years... with salary that is always more than my peers in academia. It's primarily focused on design & development of education and training programs including eLearning. I get to use the latest technology & software to develop multi-media online courses. I provide support for nurse managers who need more efficient ways to validate, track & monitor nursing competency. My job is never boring. I get to work with wonderfully talented people to ensure high quality safe patient care. I can't think of anything better.
I would encourage potential educators to be sure to obtain a clinically-focused Masters with a specialization in education. Most online programs are geared toward 'generalist' MSNs instead. You may also have to scrounge around to find courses needed to provide you with the high tech skills you need for today's staff development environment... the days of the old 'stand up' educator are long gone.

Funny, but the whole reason I chose nursing education was to get into staff development and impact practice as ti was happening. I have been an RN at the bedside forever really (started at age 20 & am old now). I only wanted to teach because I saw bad practice emerging into our profession on a fairly regular basis. After I got my degree, academia opened up for me rather than staff development (and it was a cut in pay as some have mentioned). Actually a big cut in pay if you look at the outside hours spent on this job (way more than contact hours for me).

However, I am very proud of what I do and I honestly know I am doing exactly what I set out to do. I believe I am making a difference getting to nurses early (before they are even nurses) so they know what impact their care (or lack there of) can have on patient outcomes. I always asked in grad school can we really teach toward affective objectives... Can we really teach nurses to care. I doubted it, but now I think we can-even if just a little. Teach them what can happen when they don't realize it is their job to watch for certain things or don't even know what things they should be watching for, or don't pay attention, or when they aren't on their game for a shift, or when it starts to be just a job or a shift or a paycheck for them- the impact that can have on a patient or their family member.

Hopefully, this way when they see apathy & cockiness displayed by experienced nurses, they know it is not the norm or the right way.... It is ok to care. It is ok to talk to your sedated or cognitively impaired patient... I t is ok to question practices or orders... It is ok to question the status quo or the cock sure... It is ok to care about the patient or the outcomes...

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Aug 29, 2010

AWESOME post, Dorimar :) You inspire me.

edrnbailey · Sep 15, 2010

I am also enrolled in graduate school for my MSN with education. The need for nursing faculty is the new hot topic but no one seems to address where the funds are coming from to pay them. There are three main sources that salaries for nursing faculty stem from, and two of them are government sources. If we want nursing faculty salaries to increase then we need to lobby for it. Same as nursing salaries in general. I can remember when RN's made less than $13/hr. It is through supply and demand and successful lobbying that we were able to increase our pay.

Teaching is something that I have always wanted to do. And I do mean teach NURSING. I have known two things since I started nursing; I wanted to be and ED nurse, and I wanted to teach. A large part of those goals stems from growing up with an aunt who is a nurse and a nurse educator. Although she did not earn her advanced degree simply to teach. I have heard her say multiple times that she pursued her education simply to be the best nurse she could be. And there is the main difference between younger nurses and those who have been practicing for years. (Longer than myself). Today many nurses who go into the education field do so simply to have "better hours", more "family time", etc., etc. They do not want to practice bedside nursing. That is the cornerstone of nursing. Bedside care. The patient and his/her outcomes. It is why we are all here (supposedly). The same people also complain about working nights, weekends, and holidays but choose to work in institutions that require all of that for the increase in salary. I strongly believe in maintaining current practice and bedside nursing while educating students. It's the love of nursing educators need to pass on as well as facts from books. Nursing is not a profession to be chosen simply for the paycheck, but for the love of nursing itself. Yes we all need to pay bills and put food on the table for our families, but it is not the only reason we continue to work and study every day. Simply educating yourself to be the best nurse you can is reason enough to pursue higher education. That can set the example for your peers and future nurses to observe. Education is not strictly obtained in a class room. You can teach by example as much if not more than you can be lecture.

RNTutor, BSN, RN · Sep 16, 2010

I love your thoughts on the reasons people get into nursing, and the importance of passing on the love of NURSING (not just a flexible JOB) on to students. But I would challenge the idea that the best chance nursing educators have to increase their salary is to lobby. I think this is one problem (of many!) that the government can't solve. They don't have enough money (and the money they have comes from our paychecks anyway), and just because they don't require any return on investment like the private sector doesn't mean that they can continue spending just because something is a good cause.

No matter what arena of nursing we are all in, we're all problem solvers in our chosen profession. I wonder how we can apply our critical thinking and problem solving skills to this issue to come up with some more viable solutions than trying to squeeze more money from the government?