Is Health Care a Right? - page 37

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More

  1. by   KP RN
    Where did everyone go??
    Ok, Ok....
    It might be interesting to investigate personal bankruptcy. I wonder how many bankruptcies are truly a result of health care calamaties as some of you have suggested versus all the other reasons people go bankrupt. I think a lot of people go bankrupt because they feel entitled to Lexus's, SUVs, exotic vacations, entertainment, and the overuse of credit cards.
    I empathize with the fact that economy has been terrible. I have many friends who have lost jobs.
    Blaming the health care system is not an accurate portrayal of reality. Health care did not bring down Enron.
  2. by   KP RN
    Where did everyone go??
    Ok, Ok....
    It might be interesting to investigate personal bankruptcy. I wonder how many bankruptcies are truly a result of health care calamaties as some of you have suggested versus all the other reasons people go bankrupt. I think a lot of people go bankrupt because they feel entitled to Lexus's, SUVs, exotic vacations, entertainment, and the overuse of credit cards.
    I empathize with the fact that economy has been terrible. I have many friends who have lost jobs.
    Blaming the health care system is not an accurate portrayal of reality. Health care did not bring down Enron.
  3. by   Q.
    Interesting reading Karen. As a matter of fact I remember those article series from the Wall Street Journal. We had discussed them in my seminar course.
  4. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Originally posted by KP RN
    Where did everyone go??
    Ok, Ok....
    It might be interesting to investigate personal bankruptcy. I wonder how many bankruptcies are truly a result of health care calamaties as some of you have suggested versus all the other reasons people go bankrupt. I think a lot of people go bankrupt because they feel entitled to Lexus's, SUVs, exotic vacations, entertainment, and the overuse of credit cards.
    I empathize with the fact that economy has been terrible. I have many friends who have lost jobs.
    Blaming the health care system is not an accurate portrayal of reality. Health care did not bring down Enron.
    True, true. but tell all that to your many friends that have lost jobs and mine who have, too, thru NO fault of their own. Working poor have the toughest time affording insurance, being in the middle as they are, and believe me, none of MY friends going thru this have Lexus' or big houses or even dare to think of such luxuries. They are too busy throwing their money into fixing the junker to get them to the lousy job and moving to questionable neighborhoods and apartment complexes to make ends meet, to begin to hold such pipe dreams. Health care for them, is an unaffordable luxury among the Lexus', big houses and other "entitlements" you mention here. Where is the help for them? Health care is NOT a right or universal in this country, for our working CITIZENS, although I believe it should be with all that is in me.
  5. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by KP RN
    Do you really believe that the federal governemnt will miraculously find an additional $50 billion that a bunch of penny-pinching greedy private insurance companies collectively were unable to locate???????
    Unequivocally YES and not by the means of any miracle.
  6. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by KP RN

    Virtually, all children from low income families are eligible for Medicaid. Yet, the parents of 7.7 million eligible children fail to enroll them. Over half these parents said they didn't want to deal with the administrative hassles...
    Absolutely NOT true. I've been a single parent for about 11 years. I have worked full time my entire adult life and always had medical and dental insurance through my employer--at one job I paid my premiums for years and at my last job the insurance was completely paid for by my employer.

    When I decided to go to nursing school to improve the financial and personal outlook on my life (can't depend on child support forever!) there came a point where I had to make a tough decision to quit my job and focus entirely on school. I had the full (emotional) support of my ex and he picked up insurance for our son (my two other kids were 18 and 19 at this time and they were also college students having since graduated and moved into Masters and Nursing programs themselves - they were covered by their prospective Universities). Unemployment was, without a doubt, to be a temporary thing for me. Before I outright quit, I tried going part-time, but then I couldn't afford the childcare it took for me to feel comfortable leaving my son and I was feeling completely beat down physically and emotionally. I had a savings account with about $12,000 and I figured with the amount I receive monthly in child support and my savings account, I could financially manage the last months of my nursing program without a job (remember I live in one of the, if not the, most expensive places to live in the US). When I quit my son remained covered under my ex's insurance--I took the risk of not having any insurance. COBRA would have cost me >$600.00/mo, just for me and $600/mo for me, a person in good health, seemed stupid and nothing but a charitable handout to the insurance company.

    Shortly after I quit my job to focus on the last part of my nursing program, my ex got laid off from his job and was unable to make COBRA payments for himself, let alone our son, not to mention problems paying rent/child support/etc. So I decided to apply for assistance for my son only. The only reason I did it was for peace of mind. He was healthy but I just didn't feel comfortable leaving him uninsured. So I filled out the 50 pages of paperwork, got all my proof of things together including letters from school, past employers, credit reports, etc, etc, etc.

    Sat down with the worker and her calculator. My son was not eligible for government sponsored insurance because:

    #1. I had too much money in the bank. They didn't care that I was in school trying to establish a means for my future--a future that would not require ANY assistance from the government. They didn't get it that I had carefully planned the next 18 months of my life to survive on the money in the bank. They wanted me to spend it! Yep! I was told to be eligible, I had to "spend it down" and that it needed to be done no sooner than 6 months prior to applying for aid.

    #2. I was making car payments on a fairly new car. I purchased the $24,000 car the prior year. I was told I would have to sell it and the most I could spend, or the most a car could be worth, was $3,000 blue book.

    #3. They needed me to sell some of my belongings. They counted the televisions in my house (3-2 in bedrooms and one in living room), told me I needed to sell two of them. Had to get rid of some furniture too. Couldn't really own anything that was considered a luxury. These are "luxuries" I worked my whole life for- uh huh.

    I didn't have any credit card debt, my only debt was my car payment, my bills were totally up to date, and I paid my rent every single month on time, never missing one payment (my landlord wrote an incredibly flattering letter to the state on my behalf). I only wanted assistance until my ex could find another job and cover my son or until I finished school and got a job--whichever came first.

    So I was not willing to sell my car and "spend down" my saving account, the savings account that took me years to accumulate and the savings account that I needed to survive through the coming months until I could graduate and secure a well paying job. I was basicaly SOL!! I might as well just quit nursing school and go back to my old job with no future just to get the insurance??

    I remained in school and uninsured. After about 3 months, my ex thankfully found a job and obtained insurance for our son. Fortunately nothing happened to him during that time. I reamained uninsured throughout the duration of my remaining nursing program and I too remained healthy.

    The way that government sponsored healthcare (or even welfare for that matter) works NOW is that it CREATES poor people. Had I stayed in my previous career, I would be in big trouble when the child support stops coming in and it was up to me to support myself on my measly salary. I would become a welfare recipient for sure. Our government does absolutely NOTHING for folks like myself at that time who only needed a little bit of temporary security. If I had gone ahead and done what they requested for the coverage there would have been NO WAY I could have completed my nursing program. No Way.
    Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Feb 18, '03
  7. by   BritishStudent
    Who cares if the US has a certain degree of Universay health care or not?

    It cannt be said to have a truely universal health care system while insurance based provisions and bills are im place, nor can it be said that it makes no universal health care provisions, neither does britain, were just at the other end of the scale (mostly public, small amount of private), neither does any country.

    (this is gonna be one of those posts I regret (im coming up to the end of a night shift))

    however.

    why would any nurse turn down a change in the system towards a more universal health care system, to the obvous benifit of the patient to whose care we are charged with?
  8. by   Q.
    I was making car payments on a fairly new car. I purchased the $24,000 car the prior year.
    O/T: $24,000?! Holy crap girl, what kind of car was it?? The only car off the top of my head that I know is around that price range is an Infiniti G45:


    I'm sorry Sally, and this is NO WAY intended to be a direct slam to you, but I would have a problem paying for anyone's anything when they are driving around a car like that and I am driving around my $15,000 Geo.
    Last edit by Susy K on Feb 18, '03
  9. by   KC CHICK
    Suzy, there are lots of vehicles around in that price range.
    I drive a Ford Escape that listed for about that much before I got my discount from A-plan. After, was still about 20K.

    Trucks and larger SUVs are usually in the 30,000+ range.

    Yes, I agree. If someone can't afford it, they shouldn't be purchasing it. There are many ECONOMICAL vehicles on the market that are 10-15,000K.
  10. by   Q.
    Anne,
    Ford Escapes yes run around $19,3, at least that's the current price I'm getting at cars.com.
  11. by   Sally_ICURN
    OH PLEASE!!!! Give me a break!!!!

    See, now HERE'S a problem with some attitudes. People make judgements about me and my choice of vehicles after working and saving AND paying taxes for 20+ years of my adult life, putting TWO kids into college and myself AT THE SAME TIME to ensure a SECURE FUTURE for us all, for the most part, as a single parent WITHOUT utilizing a single dime of YOUR tax money Susy.

    I own my car, I deserve it, and I EARNED it!

    I think I'm defensive about this because it just goes to show that people make uninformed judgements about others without knowing a person's life story. It's funny that out of my entire post, the auto I chose to purchase is the thing that you choose to comment on. :chuckle

    Remember, I paid taxes for 20+ years into that same system that would have given me and my son some security for 3 MONTHS while I completed my nursing program and my ex found another job. But according to some, I didn't deserve that security.

    Go figure.
  12. by   Q.
    I think I'm defensive about this because it just goes to show that people make uninformed judgements about others without knowing a person's life story.
    Sally, I made a judgement yes, on a snippet of your life that you chose to post. I can only judge based on the limited information you give me.
    There was much I could comment about your post, but I didn't want to turn this into a "it's all about Sally" thread, because that's not the point nor is it productive.

    But my opinion on the car issue stands. Sorry.
  13. by   Nurse Ratched
    Originally posted by Sally_ICURN
    I own my car, I deserve it, and I EARNED it!

    Remember, I paid taxes for 20+ years into that same system that would have given me and my son some security for 3 MONTHS while I completed my nursing program and my ex found another job. But according to some, I didn't deserve that security.
    We've finally got an answer to Kevin's question. When is it OK to say enough is enough and you don't want to give any more? For you, as for many of us, you have a certain standard of living that you like to maintain. All anyone who opposes a big gov't program is saying is that they have already reached their limit. We may all have different threshhold levels.

    Programs are means-tested for gov't assistance so we don't go broke supporting those who have other options. I'm sorry if you felt the standards were not where they should have been.

    It appears, however, that opposition to having income excessively redistributed is not limited to the conservative side.

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