Rehab Success Rate??? - page 4

Hi all: Does anybody have any numbers of the success rate of the substance abuse industry? I simply have no idea and Mr. Google hasn't been that helpful. Thank You all!!!... Read More

  1. by   subee
    There are online Smart Recovery meetings specifically for nurses. My state did not specifically requirebAA fir everyone. Smart Recovery was fine. However, I don't know how proof of participation is done now. They didn't have nurses' groups then. I have hears from participating nurses of shaming by AA members and feel for any nurse in a program that doesn't offer peer support meetings. It was a great place to get contacts for jobs and "lots of other stuff" as The Donald would put it
  2. by   subee
    Quote from catsmeow1972
    Prescisly . So far as these programs go. Appropriate would be DAU. You pee clean. You work. You don't. You're off work until cleared by YOUR (not chosen by program) doc/shrink/addictionologist. If you get written up or fired at work, that's your problem. Program notified. Happens X number of times, BON notified, appropriate action taken.
    All this forced voluntary meeting attendance, forced rehab attendance, forced employment loss, forced financial ruin, forced loss of dignity.....has nothing to do with ensuring safety in practice.
    Are you kidding? People taking propofol, fentanyl and nitrous at work shouldn't be forced to take off? After detox they can work, just not in anesthesia. Most nurses in the groups I worked withbwere only out if work for a month or two. Yes, there were limitations, but they were able nto get a paycheck and stay in nursing. Maybe not the job they identified with, but it paid the mortgage and allowed them to go to meetings and was generally less stressful.
  3. by   catsmeow1972
    Chill out! It was a random thought as to how to maybe make these things less onerous and backbreaking on the average nurse. I don't know how long ago you were involved in this stuff but the boilerplate way they are done now does absolutely nothing for any nurse, be they here for an ancient DUI or for diversion or the myriad of NON-addiction issues that these programs have deemed themselves the ones to decide safe to practice issues for.
    Now, nobody is "only out of work a month or two" try a year or more and that is AFTER going broke from the pile of "treatment" chosen by the program that is highly unlikely to have been paid for by insurance (say bye bye to your retirement nest egg). If and only if you are fortunate enough to find some probably crappy job with some place that will tolerate the stipulations placed on you, you get to go back to work. You will probably make way less money and if you can't afford all the costs of this program? Too bad. Go sell a kidney. Or give up, nobody cares. Less stressful? Not!
    I also get the impression from your responses to my posts that you think I worked in anesthesia? Like some of the other assumptions you've made about the current state of these programs you would be wrong. Many things have changed and not for the better.
  4. by   subee
    No, I didnt assume you were in anesthesia. It's an area of nursing that has the worst addiction rates and has conducted the most studies of any specialty. You can't extrapolate nurses' recovery rates from those of thegeneral population. Just sayin'. And I only left nursing 4 years ago so things haven't changed that much. I do not think that Pa. has an alternatuve program. Do your names get released to any public sites? If so, I am sorry that you live in a state with such a backwards, punitive program. Maybe you're the person to change it. Lots of other states have gone to the alternative model decades ago because a very small number of people got together to get it done. However, the corruption you expose is true. It used to be that the program was able to give a list of recommended treatment programs. Those were the ones with nurse tracks. That list was deemed inappropriate and now participants have to fend for themselves with no vetting at all. Plus , cookbooks have overtaken thinking (have to accomodate the morons) so making individual plans for patients or program participants has become anathema. You claim to be the poster child for this descent into mediocrity and you may be right! But your bitterness and negativity speak louder than anything else. Let it go. There's LOTS of other things worst that can happen to you and you are already 55. We are in the Bermuda Triangle for health issues and it's not much fun when your friends start to die. So take a deep breath here and concentrate on being less negative. Hope you don't take this as patronizing.
  5. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    Are you kidding me?!?! I don't know where or when your point of reference is. What's this nonsense about returning to work after detox and then being able to return anywhere but an anesthesia service? That is simply wrong. In my state there is no way you are getting released back to work until you complete some form of "rehab" that lasts at least 3 months. After that you have to do 90 in 90. Oh yeah this whole time you are off work and not making any money you are expected to spew cash all over the rehab industry despite their dismal success rates. Typically people don't get permission to return to work for 6+ months. Simply going back to work after detox is a notion that is at very best outdated. When you are allowed to return to work you face a narc restriction for at least another 6 months so goodbye to the career you are used to and hello to nursing homes, dialysis and doctors offices. Six months after that you can ask to return to a critical care position. That's about a year and a half after being forced from a job and into rehab. It would be different if most nurses sucked into this vortex were actually diverting meds much less taking propofol, fentanyl and nitrous at work and getting high while taking care of patients. Those nurses are in the VAST minority in these programs. I've been in small group "support" therapy for a little less than a year with a couple dozen nurses and by my count two (2) nurses fit that profile. The rest; got DUIs (some years ago), failed pee tests for weed they didn't smoke at work, checked into rehab centers to battle addictions on their own and were naïve enough to trust that other nurses would understand with no issues at work, had disgruntled ex-husbands call the BON to report abuse, took an old percoset left over from an old prescription to battle back pain (do addicts have left over dope?). Simply ridiculous and in no way reflective of any reality of these programs in the year of our lord 2017
  6. by   catsmeow1972
    Okay we all are going to back up to our respective corners for a minute. Subee: I think you are confusing SpankedinPittsburgh and myself. We are both highly vocal on this forum about how badly these programs treat nurses and the issues of the rehab industry in general. We are also located in different states and found our way into our respective programs for vastly different reasons. Neither of those reasons have anything to do with diversion or impairment on the job. However we have both been raked over the same coals as the trademark "impaired professional." Both of us are poster children for what needs to be changed in all of this. However, I can't speak for Spanked but I can say that when I am done I don't want anything to do with this crap ever again. These days I have not even decided if, when i am done I want anything to do with my own profession that threw me to the wolves when I asked for help.
    So that being said, //rant off//
  7. by   DRossy
    So, my friend who was a nurse had a bipolar manic episode- came out of nowhere, she didn't know she was bipolar, it was totally unexpected, unplanned, obviously no one chooses to be mentally ill. She didn't show up to work because she knew she wasn't thinking clearly. Was reported to the board, her license was suspended, she wasn't allowed to return to work. She spiraled deeper, lost her health insurance because she lost her job, ended up homeless. While she was manic she was arrested when the police were trying to take her to a hospital for resisting arrest. When she was clear she was put on probation for practicing nursing while impaired- she didn't practice nursing, she intentionally did not go to work. She had to do drug tests even though she was not a drug addict. Her case was published online and published in a magazine that is distributed to all nurses- so, everyone she has ever worked with, gone to school with, basically ever met now knows she is mentally ill (which to me is a huge HIPPA violation). When she got a job offer she was banned from taking the job by the state who said that her incident had occurred too recently (a year had passed, she was medically stable and had been working a non nursing job for months). She ended up having to surrender her license because she wouldn't be able to log the hours needed to keep it active. So, now (she's pretty young by the way) her entire life is ruined- she can't go back to school because she won't be able to get any kind of state license after having lost her nursing one. She can't get most jobs because of her arrest while she was sick. I have friends who are school psychologists who are speech therapists who have suffered with addiction and who have suffered with mental illness and they have boards to report to as well- their personal problems aren't publicly published for everyone to judge, they're not forced to jump through hoops determined by their boards and they don't lose their livelihoods. Addiction is a disease- I'm not proud of what I did, none of us are- and mental illness clearly is an illness- no other field of work destroys people the way the nursing field does for being human. I understand that we have people's lives in our hands although, not all nursing jobs are as intense as say ICU nursing- but, when people do recover or they are stable they should be able to restore their lives. That's not possible for everyone that ends up on probation- a lot of us don't get second chances. Not everyone is able to find a job on probation and they have to leave the field and finding gainful employment as a failed nurse- people ask questions, look into it and go with someone else. Cats is upset because she has a mental illness and is having to run around disclosing that to people and is forced into a recovery program for drug addicts, spanked is upset because he made a mistake outside of work and our personal lives should be our own, my friend I mentioned is perpetually upset because her life is ruined, and I get that I did something bad, but, I don't agree with the way we're publically shamed for it. As if living with addiction or a mental illness isn't a torture in and of itself- we have to be shamed in front of our entire community as well? That helps no one.
  8. by   catsmeow1972
    Thank you. That straight up says it. I could not have stated it better myself.
  9. by   subee
    Quote from DRossy
    So, my friend who was a nurse had a bipolar manic episode- came out of nowhere, she didn't know she was bipolar, it was totally unexpected, unplanned, obviously no one chooses to be mentally ill. She didn't show up to work because she knew she wasn't thinking clearly. Was reported to the board, her license was suspended, she wasn't allowed to return to work. She spiraled deeper, lost her health insurance because she lost her job, ended up homeless. While she was manic she was arrested when the police were trying to take her to a hospital for resisting arrest. When she was clear she was put on probation for practicing nursing while impaired- she didn't practice nursing, she intentionally did not go to work. She had to do drug tests even though she was not a drug addict. Her case was published online and published in a magazine that is distributed to all nurses- so, everyone she has ever worked with, gone to school with, basically ever met now knows she is mentally ill (which to me is a huge HIPPA violation). When she got a job offer she was banned from taking the job by the state who said that her incident had occurred too recently (a year had passed, she was medically stable and had been working a non nursing job for months). She ended up having to surrender her license because she wouldn't be able to log the hours needed to keep it active. So, now (she's pretty young by the way) her entire life is ruined- she can't go back to school because she won't be able to get any kind of state license after having lost her nursing one. She can't get most jobs because of her arrest while she was sick. I have friends who are school psychologists who are speech therapists who have suffered with addiction and who have suffered with mental illness and they have boards to report to as well- their personal problems aren't publicly published for everyone to judge, they're not forced to jump through hoops determined by their boards and they don't lose their livelihoods. Addiction is a disease- I'm not proud of what I did, none of us are- and mental illness clearly is an illness- no other field of work destroys people the way the nursing field does for being human. I understand that we have people's lives in our hands although, not all nursing jobs are as intense as say ICU nursing- but, when people do recover or they are stable they should be able to restore their lives. That's not possible for everyone that ends up on probation- a lot of us don't get second chances. Not everyone is able to find a job on probation and they have to leave the field and finding gainful employment as a failed nurse- people ask questions, look into it and go with someone else. Cats is upset because she has a mental illness and is having to run around disclosing that to people and is forced into a recovery program for drug addicts, spanked is upset because he made a mistake outside of work and our personal lives should be our own, my friend I mentioned is perpetually upset because her life is ruined, and I get that I did something bad, but, I don't agree with the way we're publically shamed for it. As if living with addiction or a mental illness isn't a torture in and of itself- we have to be shamed in front of our entire community as well? That helps no one.
    Would love to see a test case for this woman. It is such a violation of her privacy to have her name published. She deserves a verrrrry large settlement.
  10. by   DRossy
    Also, my friend that has bipolar disorder, the last job she had was working at a food packaging factory for minimum wage- she has two college degrees... that's the best she could get and obviously that's not enough to support herself and her two kids. With her wage at the food factory all she could afford was to rent a room for the three of them to share in a half way house... so, not everyone gets a second chance and considering her mental illness was something completely outside of her control it seems kinda ridiculous that she would even be put in a position where she's having to ask for another chance. If she had gone into any other field she would have had support and help from her employer and her board would have been empathetic not callous. Although, it wasn't just the nursing board or the nursing profession that discarded her and hung her out to dry or did her a disservice- it was also the police who arrested her and took her to jail instead of a hospital. Everyone knows the criminal justice system deals with mental illness horribly but, still her biggest source of pain comes from the nursing board and the nursing field- she still hasn't gotten over it. I mean, how do you get over something like that?
  11. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    My god I don't know what to say. I'll pray for your friend. We are a miserable lot to turn our back on a fellow stricken nurse like this. It's sickening. I'm at a complete loss. Rabid dogs treat each other better
  12. by   DRossy
    Might as well say- she's actually my girlfriend. She went crazy, I didn't know how to handle it- was trying to get her to go to the hospital, she wouldn't. I was afraid she was going to hurt herself or me or the kids. So, I called the police and asked them to take her to the hospital, she fought them and they threw her in jail and cause the kids weren't mine they took them to foster care. When she got out with everything she was going through with the board and losing the kids and then she blamed me for calling the cops- saying it was my fault that she lost the kids. I was just trying to get her help. She disappeared, was living in her car. I couldn't find her and fell into a severe depression, I was fully suicidal. Losing her and the kids was the most painful thing I had ever gone through. That's when my drinking got out of control but, honestly I was prepared to end my life- and I'm not being dramatic, I really was. I drank so much the day before work, I honestly didn't realize I was intoxicated but I was living in a haze. That's when I lost my job because I showed up to work intoxicated, I really didn't feel drunk but, honestly, I didn't care. I figured I'd live off my retirement and kill myself when I ran out. She contacted me out of nowhere about a year after she’d disappeared, we've been together since and I decided then that of course I want to be sober and alive and take care of her and the kids, who I love and as my own, but... I screwed up, now I'm really scared if I don't get a job as a nurse again I don't know how I'll be able to support four people and I actually care again, I miss working. I want to be a nurse, I really don't know what I'm gonna do if I can't find work. She’s not working right now cause her mom had a stroke and she was helping her recover- so, she’s living with her parents in a different state but, her mom is doing really well now so as soon as I start working I can get us a place. I’m really worried I won’t be able to do that. All of this started a little over two years ago now and I know, I know she has PTSD from what she went through with losing her career. It’s just awful for her and her kids; she worked so hard as a single mom to get through school and in the end it was all just to be publicly shamed and humiliated.
    Last edit by DRossy on Nov 5, '17
  13. by   DRossy
    To clarify the post above, it didn’t happen in a day, like she went crazy and I called the police and she lost her job. It was more like two months after she lost her job and had her meeting with the board before I called the police and asked them to take her to the hospital because she just kept getting worse and worse to the point where she was just completely out of touch with reality. She just kept getting worse and I know that the stress of the nursing board and losing her job compounded it- she was so stressed out, she couldn’t get better. Fast forward to two years later and all any potential employer has to do is a google search and that's it, they know everything about her psychotic manic episode and what happened with her nursing license- so, she can't just say something like she wanted a career change or had a small personal problem even because, just a google search says it all. It actually says it worse than it was saying she practiced while impaired when she didn’t. Basically, life long embarrassment and public humiliation.
    Last edit by DRossy on Nov 5, '17

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