This "us" vs "them" mentality....

[DL-SNUP]

I've been reading through the posts from the last few days, and I'm completely astonished by the "us" vs "them" mentality that is showing up between the nursing students and the staff nurses.

Maybe I'm idealistic, but shouldn't we be trying to work as cohesively as possible so that we can combine forces and provide the best care possible for our patients? It seems to me like we're both equally to blame for the issues that seem to be going on. On one hand, it seems like nursing students need to be more willing to contribute and gain some perspective, realizing that while the staff nurse should *try* to teach us, it isn't their main focus. On the other hand, it seems like a lot of staff nurses are going into clinical situations with a negative attitude about working with students, which I really think can only make matters worse.

Can we really care for patients effectively if we're not on the same page and being professional to each other? I personally don't think so. I think that in any customer service business, having issues behind the scenes like this WILL impact the patient. And I'm so tired of all the finger pointing, because both sides are making mistakes. As a student, I am more than willing to admit that I have been less than enthusiastic when asked to perform something I've done a million times. It happens, and when I realize I've done it I try to change my attitude and do better next time.

Instead of all this negativity, why can't we just try to learn from each other, and accept and navigate the limitations of the time together? Students can learn SO much from staff nurses, and (believe it or not) once in a while a staff nurse can learn a new thing from a student. If we can accept that we're all (hopefully) intelligent individuals united in the fact that we chose nursing to help the patients, and see each other as imperfect people who face constrictions based on our role, it seems like everything would go more smoothly.

I know that it's not all nurses and students that are acting this way....it's just incredibly discouraging to see such a lack of teamwork from the members of this community. At the end of the day, all the students of today will be your coworkers soon, staff nurses. And students, soon we'll all have students that stress us out and make more work for us. Can't we accept that and learn from each other?

Sorry for the ranting....I guess my point is this:

Let's meet halfway.

Students: The nurses are stressed out and busy. Try to help. Ask what THEY want you to do. Tell them that you understand they are busy, but that you would appreciate anything they can teach you. SAY THANK YOU. Realize that it's about the patient. If that means that you miss getting to d/c a central line, there is always next time. If it means that you have to help out what with ADLS, I/Os, etc...realize that you WILL learn from that as well. Be grateful for the opportunity to learn anything you can, and always try to be understanding.

Nurses: Realize that a lot of students *do* realize that you don't want us around. We know that it's not your choice to have a student, but realize that we're not there to ruin your day. Realize that most students want to learn from you and value/idolize how much you know. We're sorry that we're often thought of as an annoyance or an extra task, because all we want is to learn from you so that we can care for our pts as well as you do.

Communicate with us. Today, I worked with a nurse who had 2 pts and was getting her 3 admits all at once. All it took was her saying to me "hey, I'm super busy right now. Can you keep an eye on pt 1 and 2 while I admit these new pts? I'll come find you when it calms down or if there is something I think you could really learn from". Seriously, 3 sentences and I was able to feel like I was helping and not simply being ignored. I don't care how busy you are, but communicating with your team (and a student is a part of that team) is such a priority.

Like I said, maybe I'm just idealistic. But from my experience with other jobs and life in general, if we can just take a deep breath and do our best to make the "behind the scenes" dynamics positive, it will help our patients. Because at the end of the day, that's what ALL of us really want, right?

[No Stars In My Eyes]

OH BOY ! I dont think this is anywhere near solved...but I appreciated hearing all opinions! I can tell you things I have agreed with while reading all these posts.

Students really are not very helpful and honestly no matter how much I like them which I like them (I do like most of them) they are always one more thing to factor into my day. (if you follow and keep up and just help out as needed thats great we truely do not need another opinion in most cases and will ask you when we do) I do not mean any of this to be rude.

I honestly have to say that nurses have been students but students are nt nurses and do not understand the issues yet. THIS plays a huge part in the arguement. It is not my job to be nice to you or let you do things, the drama that comes with a scared or opinionated student is just ridiculous to me in the big scheme of things, do not get me wrong I will not knowingly be rude or mean, I do understand that we all start somewhere and that you are human too. I obviously chose to work with people so I do not wish to get away from you, I don't mind teaching anyone along the way....BUT I do not KNOW you or your skill set, I CANNOT concern myself with your individual needs for skills or emotional support when I have a full assignment and am sometimes working short it is in my job description someplace to delegate.

If you are with me this would be an acceptable situation maybe ideal in my opinion. You are with me for longer than a few hours, you listen to report with me from start to finish, writing things down so you can ask questions when there is time, come to the patients bedside with me I know it is uncomfortable to some extent let me introduce you, or you introduce yourself briefly then step back watch how i work, take mental note of what you like about my approach and what you dont etc *this too is expirience.

Some of you are with instructors and will pass meds etc with them, please make known what is expected of you from them, I will tell you what I can and cannot do to accomadate you. usually at this time if you have heard of a certain procedure that needs to be performed we will have some small op to discuss if you are able to do it with instructor or if you willasssist me as I have the time to do it. If I have time I can teach you in the steps you would like things done in but I am betting on you having to run room to room with me to keep up and when I am ready to do something you will need to be present or you will miss out...I do not have time to wait for you to read a book or look up each individual med, nor do i have time to explain each one. I dont mind explaining procedures and I believe I can do so in a way that both you and the patient can understand and be comfortable with so please do not pry into why I did something a certain way in front of the patient. Or worse yet try and be a know it all and correct me or the patient at this time, please be curteous.

This will be repeated over and over all day long its like plan A, plan B, PLan A, maybe plan C nursing is changing every minute prioritizing for the good of all of the patients you take care of for the day. If you are responsible for only two of my patients then you are getting only a little part of the picture. You are not seeing a nurse organize thier day. You are getting a very narrow view.

Ideally you would be with one nurse even longer than a day. You would be there the whole shift. You would have time to organize your time and talk about EVERYTHING and chart with the nurse and learn many many skills and perform them in the order and frequenct required by your school....but this is the real world, patients are very ill, staffing may be poor, someone may code, someone may die, oh good grief anything can happen and thats what its all about...UNDERSTANDING. You have to roll with the punches, give people the benefit of the doubt, help out as much as you can, take notice of whats going on around you and try and learn something new, maybe even a skill. I would say alot of emphasis is placed on tasks and skills when so much more is gained from knowing how to read people, knowing when to pay attention, and being willing to help. Is it going to do you any good not help out? be a complete pain in the butt and demand things from people who owe you nothing? I am much more willing to ask the same student (even if we have 4 on the floor at once) to help me out again if they had a good attitude even if their skill level left some tobe desired than to try and track down someone with a bad attitude who gets good grades and needs to check this off thier list....again this is a long rant from an expirienced nurse who is hitting on just a small part of a heated issue. :twocents:

:yeah:ABSOLUTELY! BRAVO! YES! MEGA-KUDOS!

[hcfraughton]

I completely understand the argument that you don't want an un-understanding student. You don't want someone who is making demands of you.

BUT! That is ABSOLUTELY NOT an excuse to act the way many Nurses do toward students. I've been on both sides of the fence, and I'm here to tell you, you can still be nice. I've had a couple students who were a bit pushy. 3 sentences re: I'm busy, today we probably won't have time for that, I'll do my best, follow my lead. That's it, usually problem solved.

The LARGE majority of students are not pushy in my experience, they are shy, willing to do whatever (That's the way I was too.) And I still was treated so rudely, that by the time I was done with my student experience, I didn't think I wanted to work in the hospital anymore.

This is hot button for me. Absolutely NO EXCUSE to treat another human being that way.

[mc3, ASN, RN]

I also think it's completely backwards and asinine to think that an instructor can teach up to 10 students all the ins and outs of skills, patho, and things like that on her own without SOME help from the nurses on the staff.

To you guys that are opposed to having students and teaching, what do you think should be done? Because apparently there's a lot of "I got mines! Good luck" type attitude and that is counterproductive. I mean if you aren't going to try to revamp the nursing education system and change it, then I suggest you just keep quiet about it or try your best to be a good teacher.

I mean, I've never seen other disciplines in the healthcare field act like this.

Med Students: The resident/attending is right there beside them explaining every aspect of the procedure or disease process even if they have to round 40 patients by 10 am.

PT/OT: The student is right there helping get patients out of bed and documenting with the supervision of a licensed PT/OT.

Either way, I don't receive the "I'm not welcomed here" vibe from students of other disciplines. But for nursing students, it's like we have to hide in the closets or something or are looked at as vermin. Umm hello...

When I was in school in 2003, we went to the hospital the night before and got our patient assignments. It was our responsibility to look up the disease (s), the typical pathology, what the common treatments were, and know the medication and the reason the patient was taking it...the next day, we got report, and off we went. It was not the instructors or the nurses responsibility to teach 10 students the "ins and outs" of what I needed to know that day. It was mine. If I had a question, I asked our instructor. Our instructor would spot quiz us on the patient, and if you weren't prepared, you were sent home. Nobody would hand you anything on a plate. Maybe that's why you're getting the vibe? BTW - this was for an LPN program.....

mc3:nurse: