Flotrac for Triple H therapy - page 2
We recently started using the Edwards FloTrac for our Triple H patients. The first round went really well, the second round did not go as well. The problem we are having is the variability with the... Read More
Aug 13, '11I also work in a teaching hospital and we don't use any of that stuff! Triple H patients get a high hourly fluids rate and keep MAP >80 or 90. They don't even get a central line unless they need more than phenylephrine and fluid to keep their MAP up or there is an ICP issue and they get 7.5% NaCl. Even with the central line in place we rarely bother measuring the CVP. I have never seen a swan or a flotrac on our neurosurgery patients. We basically just give them as much fluid as possible and run vasopressors as needed to drive the MAPs up.
We only use lidco if they are requiring multiple high dose vasoactives/are septic or in some other shock state. On triple H patients I have also used lidco because of CHF history and the risks associated with triple H for those patients.
Most cardiothoracic surgery patients have a swan. We use them very very rarely for other types of patients who are extremely hemodynamically unstable with high PAP suspected or we need to directly measure CO. Sometimes patient who have coded or are coding will get one.
Flotracs are used usually only for cardiac surgery patients who are done without cardiopulmonary bypass or who have a less invasive procedure (i.e. endovascular AAA repair).
Of course we do put arterial lines in almost all of them but even that is not set in stone, if they are maintaining MAPs without pressors we'll even take the a-line out. I find it interesting that other facilities use so much invasive monitoring for triple H.
Sep 2, '11We use SVV >13 they get a bolus. However it isn't very useful without a good art line.
We also don't always use the vigileo. Only in severe spasams. Mostly we use CVP.
Sep 10, '11Quote from chudderTHANK YOU for pointing this out! We use Flo-Tracs fairly frequently on the critical care units on which I work and I can't tell you how many times medical personnel (including MANY residents) will point to the SVV and declare that a patient needs or does not need fluids based soley on that number. Sometimes this will be a patient who is not even on a ventilator at all, much less 100% mechanically ventilated.http://www.edwards.com/products/mini...ariationwp.htm
"literature supports the use of SVV only on patients who are 100% mechanically (control mode) ventilated with tidal volumes of more than 8cc/kg and fixed respiratory rates"
We rarely use control mode in our unit.
If you watch the SVV numbers on a patient who is 100% ventilated in control mode you'll see that they are pretty steady. With a patient who is not you'll see wild SVV number variations. Just not reliable at all.
I carry a print-out from Edwards explaining what the numbers mean and hand out copies to anyone who wants them. What the heck....I work in teaching hospitals.