Nursing titles

[shazibabe]

im curious as to wat titles other countries have for their enrolled nurse................in australia we have registered nurses and those with specialties and then we have enrolled nurses followed by personal care workers (nurse assistants in the older years).

sorry if its already been asked b4 but this is my first thread and time i have had since i joined for doing this. I have just finished our diploma of nursing ( post enrolment) course which is the new course for our certificate IV in nursing (enrolled Nursing). so i just wanted to add my worth:D

[suzanne4, RN]

The US does not recognize any coursework that was done specifically in a high school. That is just how they do things here, especially with nursing. There are some LPN programs now that are being offered with some high school programs as their vocational training. But that is it.

Even there was a big issue a few years ago with the nurses that were coming out of China as they took the RN program when they were in HS, and the US requires that it be done after HS.

I was actually in an Advanced Science program when I was in high school that was definitely harder than some of my university courses. But still did not get credit for them as being uni courses.

Unless the classes that were actually taken were given college credit for them, then they are not accepted in the US in terms of nursing and an evaluation of the curriculum. That is what I am basing things on.

And a program that was three years in any country is not considered the same as the BSN in the US, no matter what the set-up is in terms of completing any coursework while in high school. The actual science courses that are offered for the nursing track are not the same as the ones for pre-med or pre-denistry, etc. They are completely different and most nursing programs do not require Organic Chemistry with its lab, or Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy, which most that have gotten the BS in Biology have. And I have that degree as well.

[elmar22]

It is also the reason why most degrees from Australia does not have the "Science" with it. This includes Bachelor of Accounting, Bachelor of Engineering, Bachelor of Mathematics because the prerequisite science subjects are fully covered in high school and not in the university. I believe the advantage of this set up is that you can concentrate on the "real" subjects on your way to your degree.

[suzanne4, RN]

But this is not about the other courses or degrees issued there. The original poster was asking about what was needed to be able to work in the US. And the issue is that the three year degree, is not considered the same as the BSN here. That is just how it is and how CGFNS/ICHP do things and they are the ones that make the decisions on this.

And that was the information that this poster needed to know. Nothing to do with the requirements of your country, but what is needed to work in the US.

[elmar22]

And the issue is that the three year degree, is not considered the same as the BSN here. That is just how it is and how CGFNS/ICHP do things and they are the ones that make the decisions on this.

Yeah I went off the topic there...Sorry..But there should be a fairer way for CGFNS/ICHP to evaluate degrees from different countries..It looks like they just base it on the number of years you have done your nursing...It is just unfair that Australian nurses are not equivalent to BSN while nurses with "four-year" Nursing degree from third world countries are BSNs...it does not make sense..I believe this is one of the reasons why Australian nurses are not that interested to go to the US.

[suzanne4, RN]

No, they go by actual coursework completed, not years. And also if the level of the nurse is considered first level in their country.

There are countries that have two year degrees, but they are not the first level there, and are considered more just for technical skills. The ruling is first level.

And not all programs from the other countries that are four years are considered equivalent to the BSN, some still get just Diploma rating. It is 100% dependent on the classes that were completed at the college level. They do not accept any that were completed during the high school years, no matter where it was done. If there were not actual college/uni credits issued for it, then it does not count.

And CGFNS did not make up these rules, it was actually done by the US government. CGFNS/ICHP are under contract with the US Government to provide these services. They cannot just change them either.

[elmar22]

With the present setup of the Australian Nursing curriculum, a Bachelor of Nursing graduate in Australia will never be considered as equivalent to a BSN in the US (although I believe the quality of Nursing graduates here are at par with any Western country). I wonder why the New South Wales Board of Nurses and Midwives (NSWBNM) in Australia recognises a four-year BSN graduate from the US to be equivalent to a Bachelor of Nursing graduate in Australia (From what I know, a US BSN graduate doesn't have to undergo the bridging courses for overseas trained nurses to practice here) when there is obviously unfairness in the process of degree recognition....I believe this issue needs to be raised with the NSWBNM..there should be a two-way process not just one way...Or Australia really that desperate for Nurses?...

[suzanne4, RN]

The Bachelor of Nursing is recognized from your country to the US, the issue is that it is not recognized as a four year degree. Nothing more than that.

The BSN is accepted there as it is at least equal to the training that is done in your country. A nurse from your country does not need additional training to work in the US, provided that they have had clinical and theory hours in the required areas.

No other need for additional training between the two countries otherwise. You are also able to get a treaty visa for the US which most nurses from other countries are unable to get.

Only citizens of Australia, Mexico, and Canada can obtain this type of visa. So I would not do too much complaining.

[elmar22]

I wonder then how a Bachelor of Nursing graduate from Australia can be equivalent to a BSN in the US..One Aussie nurse that I know had her Nursing degree from Australia assessed by CGFNS/ICHP as equivalent to that of a Nursing diploma (which is considered to be less LESS THAN A DEGREE). This is despite of the additional one year of postgraduate Nursing studies she had here in Australia (That additional postgraduate certificate in Pediatrics is considered as having no equivalent in the US). There is an issue here on the title because As far as I know, there are more opportunities for a BSN when it comes to advancing one's nursing profession than that of a "diploma" in nursing holder...There are some job openings that specifically require BSN graduates...This means that Australian Bachelor of Nursing graduates can not apply to these positions because they are not considered to be equivalent to BSNs in the US.

[suzanne4, RN]

I said that they were not equivalent, but that the nursing training was accepted in the US for licensure as an RN. Post-grad certification is usually a certificate given by a facility there after you have completed additional training offered by that hospital, etc. It usually does not have college credits, and that is where the difference is again. If it is not an a transcript from an approved school of nursing, then it does not count towards the BSN. This is what I am trying to explain to you.

We do not have the certification programs like that, our hours are completed via a school of nursing. And as keep stating, the three year Bachelor's degree there is not accepted as a BSN in the US as it is not the same. And it is not just CFGNS ruling for working in the US, but also from any university. CGFNS just does the breakdown of hours for the CES, they do not state if one is approved or not approved, but the final agency makes the determination. And none of them give a four year credit for a three year program. That simple.

[suzanne4, RN]

I have never said that the Bachelor of Nursing degree in Australia was the same as the BSN, it is not.

The nurse from Australia that wishes to continue on with their schooling has their training evalauted and then they take the courses that the university wants them to take to get their BSN. Not really any different from the nurses in the Philippines that get the MAN, they do not get the MSN there and need to take the other courses in the US to complete that degree.

I actually have a Diploma in Nursing and it has never held my back from whatever that I wanted to do. I also have a BS and an MBA. But still do not have the BSN or the MSN, and it has made no actual difference in what I have done over the years.

[suzanne4, RN]

If the nurse has the Bachelor of Nursing from your country and enough clinical experience and the appropriate skill level, then they will not be held back from that job offer. Most foreign nurses that come into the US work as staff nurses until they get experience working here or they have the MSN before they come over.

The issue comes down to if the nurse wishes to work in the US, then they need to meet the US requirements. Same way that if a nurse from the US wishes to work in any other country, they need to meet the requirements of that country, no exceptions are made because they trained in the US.

Even our two year programs require a year of pre-reqs before even getting into the actual nursing program, but it is still considered a two year degree, and is not accepted in countries that have minimum of a three year training for the RN, such as the UK, and most of the other European Union countries, even several of the provinces in Canada require the four year program and will not take a two year graduate. Some have two years there, and some have four years, but with a two year degree there you cannot obtain a license to work in all of the provinces there.

That is just the way that things are.

[elmar22]

Post-grad certification is usually a certificate given by a facility there after you have completed additional training offered by that hospital, etc. It usually does not have college credits, and that is where the difference is again. If it is not an a transcript from an approved school of nursing, then it does not count towards the BSN. /quote]

Postgraduate Nursing certificates here in Australia are only offered by Universities and Nursing colleges not hospitals. They come with transcripts of records. The subjects taken are actually for higher Nursing degrees like Master of Nursing (note the "Science" is again missing). Postgraduate Certificates are given to graduate students who had completed the first four subjects(usually completed in one year- specialty subjects in pediatrics, perioperative, etc) of Masteral studies ...completion of another four subjects (i.e. eight total completed subjects) will qualify a graduate student for a Postgraduate Diploma in Nursing...and another four will qualify you for a Master of Nursing (total of 12 subjects). In effect, postgraduate certificates and diplomas are exit points for graduate students who decide not to complete their Masteral studies. That makes a Nurse here in Australia with a Graduate Certificate to have completed an additional year in the university, aside from the original three years of their Bachelor of Nursing. Apparently, this additional year is not considered by the CGFNS/ICHP in their evaluation of Australian nurses because according to them, there is no US equivalent.