What is your opinion on CNA's being med certified? - page 4

I just read a post by a new Nurse who admitted to making a medication error, and as I was replying to her post I was wondering about something and I'd like to get opinions from others. In my... Read More

  1. by   fairyprincess2003
    Hey Didexi
    I was in agreeing with you For some reason, I always reply with the previous post in my response not even realizing it.
  2. by   kidluvinRN
    Quote from Dixiedi
    You just HAD to mention MRDD and you did it on this fine Sunday morning!! :angryfire
    And mentioning MRDD is a problem why? We should be most concerned about this population as they are so vulnerable. This is a great discussion and I think that the MRDD population is at risk here; I've seen it too.
  3. by   Dixiedi
    Should have figured that one out. lol... i very often do the same thing.
  4. by   obeyacts2
    Quote from kidluvinRN
    And mentioning MRDD is a problem why? We should be most concerned about this population as they are so vulnerable. This is a great discussion and I think that the MRDD population is at risk here; I've seen it too.
    This is exactly the population that is most in danger from improper meds handling and administration. These places are (in CA, ICF facilities) money makers for private businesses that have every incentive to cut corners. These patients havent hte family to advocate (usually) that LTC residents have, so if a mistake is made, who is going to complain? Not the MRDD patient with an IQ of 25!!


    Laura
  5. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from kidluvinRN
    And mentioning MRDD is a problem why? We should be most concerned about this population as they are so vulnerable. This is a great discussion and I think that the MRDD population is at risk here; I've seen it too.
    MRDD is part of the problem! They want to do everything the cheapest way possible! Not the most ecoomical way, the cheapest way!

    We're not talking about them wanting CNAs to distribute meds where at least there is a nurse available to "fix" an error we are talking about them wanting to send CNAs into home care where kids need skilled nursing!
    We are talking about MRDD leaving vent dependant kids on auto pilot for 8 - 12 hours a day becasue the parents are home. Yea, they are sleeping, something all humans must do.
    We are talking MRDD refusing to supply nursing care enough hours a week to allow parents an evening "off."
    We are takling about MRDD wharehousing kids in classroom (loosely described) during school hours so that the board of education is responsible for them for a while.
    Don't get me going about these people. One of my parents and I are in heated discussions with them on a regular basis and with senators, govenors and more.
    MRDD is unwilling to offer a premium dollar to the agencies so they might attract and maintain only the best nurses. Because of this we are forced to keep breathing bodies with a license just to maintain coverage and those kids are left without the dedicated home care nursing staff they require for optimal recovery/maintanance.
  6. by   kidluvinRN
    In my mind MRDD, is just an abbreviation for Mentally Retarded, Developmentally Disabled. I use it to describe a population of people, not an agency or program of the state.

    I agree that corners are cut with this population due to lack of self or other advocacy. Broadening the scope of ULP is a way to extend staff dollars for a routine task.
  7. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from kidluvinRN
    In my mind MRDD, is just an abbreviation for Mentally Retarded, Developmentally Disabled. I use it to describe a population of people, not an agency or program of the state.

    I agree that corners are cut with this population due to lack of self or other advocacy. Broadening the scope of ULP is a way to extend staff dollars for a routine task.
    It's also the abbreviation for the agency that is guilty of all of the above. ULP I am unaware of (or just not used to that abrieviation, but in any case, I do not recognize what you mean.
  8. by   mscsrjhm
    Dearest Dixie:

    Greatly enjoying the well-placed outrage at MRDD. And, in this state, Missouri, the head of the human services for the state, including MRDD, is the highest paid state employee.!!!!!
    I feel, appreciate, and join you in the MRDD outrage.

    Mschrisco
  9. by   Betty_SPN_KS
    Quote from Hellllllo Nurse
    There are TWO difference workers who are called CMAs.

    This thread is about Certified Medication Aides, who work under nurses' licenses, not Certified Medical Assistants, who don't.

    Yes, I've lived and worked in both Kansas and Indiana. What is called a CMA, Certified Medication Assistant in Kansas, is called a QMA, Qualified Medication Assistant, in Indiana, and CMA means Certified Medical Assistant. I guess Medication Technician is used in some places also.
  10. by   MickyB-RN
    In my area, there are several state run facilities for the mentally and physically retarded>>

    We have homes for the mentally ill here throughout the county. The "staff", not CNA's or CMA's but just regular people never trained in any areas of care, dispense meds to the residents living in these homes. The company sends them to medication training, they take a test every 2 yrs. and are considered med certified and can pass medications in DMR run homes.

    Here's a description from their site:

    <<As stated in the DPH approved training materials, training programs must not be less than 16 hours in length, including classroom instruction, testing and the practicum. Trainers must comply with this specification.

    The Medication Administration Program's training program is specific to DMH/DMR registered MAP programs only. MAP trainers may only train those individuals who will be administering medications in registered DMH/DMR adult settings. >>

    16 hr. trainings are all that are required. Every 2 yrs. following your initial MAP certification you simply have to go to a review that lasts maybe 3 hrs and have a nurse watch you give a med and chart it. And, the individuals they train are not specifically trained in patient care, meaning not CNA's.

    Is this what you are speaking of?


    Kelly
  11. by   obeyacts2
    Quote from KellyMarie37
    In my area, there are several state run facilities for the mentally and physically retarded>>

    We have homes for the mentally ill here throughout the county. The "staff", not CNA's or CMA's but just regular people never trained in any areas of care, dispense meds to the residents living in these homes.

    Is this what you are speaking of?


    Kelly
    EXACTLY!!!!! Here, to work in homes for the developmentally disabled, CNA training is not required, nor is med certification class. One of the first jobs I ever had as a caregiver was in one of these places. My training to pass meds was "From now on you will pass meds (dinner time) when you are working. Here are the cards with meds blisterpacked, client name is at top. Here is the chart: intial on the line when you give the med" Period. The meds we gave were "maintenance" lots of anti seizure drugs, for example. The meds I had the hardest time learning to give: birth control pills :chuckle I had the hardest time trying to figure out how to open the package


    Laura
  12. by   GEO
    CNA'S are care givers. They do not pass meds. CMA'S are certified medication aides. While there are private, for profit facilities who do make money, there are also facilities who are non profit. The cost of LTC is very expensive, be it private pay or DHS. For some facilities the door staying open is dependent on the old budget. There are facilities who DO care about the quality that is delivered to the elderly that are living in their faciltiy. And some of these non profit facilites are having a hard time keeping their door open with the costs of care. The role of the CMA is directly under the LPN/RN license. As for the DON, well the buck stops right with her license. I have worked with very, very GOOD CNA'S & CMA'S. Do they have the knowledge of the LN'S, NO WAY. However their job is very important, many of these CMA'S are working towards going to school. I have observed many facilties send anyone to CMA class. It behoves any DON to look closely at the particular staff member who wants to go to medication aide training. They must be a person who is attentive to details and who is not afraid to ask questions and take direct supervision well. Just anyone wont do... I do see the BON getting more involved in this area. Making more decisons about what the cma can and can not do. It wasnt that many years ago there did not even have to be an LPN/RN on duty but for the day shift and 3 evening shifts. That left 10 shifts a week without any licensed staff on. This has changed in the last 10 years. Things are changing for the better, and it gets better with more Licensed staff. I predict there will be a day that the CMA goes the way of the dinasoar....I just hope we will have the LN'S to fill the gap. LTC is a tough place to work. Just as challenging as Acute care in many aspects. The elderly are frail, and are coming into the facilities sicker.
    I Did not mean to write a book, however, many CNAS and CMAS are very special, intelligent folks. The best for the residents is their goal. Passing medications in an ideal situation would be RNS/LPNS. How many health care settings are ideal? But many of the elderly have been cared for at home by family members who are trying to care for families, work full time and have absolutely no health care training. For now, until things change, their is a definite place in the picture for CMAS. This part of the Team just has to be supervised and educated by the LN who is working with them. Their education , just as ours, just begins with the Certification/License.

    I am sure several will disagree with this. That is what makes this discussion board so interesting. OPINIONS BEING VOICED........makes folks think. I will turn it over to the next interested person.........geo
  13. by   lady_jezebel
    I believe that meds should only be administered by professionals with specialized training, just as those who prescribe need to have the appropriate background & license (for accountability). You can't safely give a Rx without understanding patho, pharmacology, how to monitor/recognize side-effects, and how to respond quickly to side-effects.

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