Preferential treatment for new staff - page 3
Does anyone else have a problem with new staff getting preferential treatment? I have worked at the same hospital for eighteen years, and it seems new hires are getting better treatment from... Read More
May 21, '02I agree, ageless. Not being allowed to talk about salaries allows manipulation by management. I'm so glad we have a union at my hospital: not one of the big ones, but our own, run by us. Takes more work, but everything is as fair as possible. Our salaries are in our contract - everyone knows what everyone else is making if they know the step they're on. Floating, being cancelled due to low census, holidays - everything is spelled out - everything is above board. And Mandatory OT has been outlawed for years !
May 21, '02That's an interesting case Ageless! If you could find more info about the case, please post it. I'd like to read the specifics.
Even without a policy against it, I still would not want to discuss my salary with other employees nor would I want others inquiring about my salary...creates hostility. Salary is a manager's judgment of the value of your job skills...and your abilities as a negotiator. Discussing raise percentages creates the same negativity.
During the second or third interview is where I negotiate a salary with mgmt and there is where it should stay.
May 21, '02I can't think of any fair way to make salary discussions against the rules, but I must say, it is just tacky.
At our urgent care clinic, we have a wide range of nursing experience represented. In my opnion, it is not a shock that each of us had certain factors taken into account when our pay rates were decided by mangagement. We have RNs, LPNs, and MAs, all of whom, obviously, are not paid the same. I am very conscious of the fact that there are some MAs at my clinic who have been there for years and likely will never be paid what I am, and to bring this out into the open is just rude. Similarly, I know that I am paid less than RNs with years of experience, but not knowing exact numbers makes this fact almost forgettable.
One of our new nurses, an RN formerly working in NICU, recently came right out and asked me what I was paid, and she wanted a dollar amount. This made me very uncomfortable, and I did not tell her what I am paid. Furthermore, she made a great show of studying her paystub, looking for her rate of pay. She explained that she wanted to see if her raise had taken effect yet, then went on to say that her raise was not scheduled until May 26. ????? What raise? I have not been with this clinic for long, but I know that the hospital organization has not yet agreed to any across-the-board raises, and this nurse was just working her 3rd shift that day! Without looking at her stub, I told her that the rate is printed in the upper left-hand corner; she kept angling it toward me, insisiting that she could not find it. Finally she leaned forward and put it under my nose and said, "Show me where it is." I did, and any blind fool could have seen it, and of course I now know precisely what she is paid. Where is the professionalism here? Why would anyone, especially a brand new employee, want to rub into someone's face that she is paid more, despite the very obvious fact that I was not interested in discussing it? (Unfortunately for us all, this particular RN has exhibited a lacking of professionalism, as well as any common sense at all, in a number of ways that serve only to make our jobs harder, our pt flow slower, and the agitation of our patients greater.)
While I can see how mgmt could certainly find ample room for manipulation here, it just seems to me that naming numbers to each other, especially when there are a lot of factors influencing differences in pay, is just in really, really bad taste. JMHO.
May 21, '02I need to address a few of the comments that have been made. First of all, I am not whining because I have to work weekends. When I decided on nursing as a career, I knew I would be working weekends, shifts, and holidays, and I still expect to. But so should newer people expect to work the same amount of holidays and weekends. And don't move someone from a shift they have worked for a long time to a less desirable shift because a new employee wants that shift. I deserved Christmas off this year because I worked it last year, and hospital policy is that you work it every other year. I worked Thanksgiving, and planned on spending Christmas with my family, and instead worked Christmas because a new person wanted to be with her children for their first Christmas in their new home. So I worked, and missed my terminally ill Mother's last Christmas. And yes, management is to blame for setting these policies, or not adhering to the policies that are in place. That was actually the point I was trying to make in my first post. These actions do create resentment and conflict among staff. But new hires are also coming into the hospital with the attitude that if they don't get what they want, they walk. And everyone should be held accountable for their own behavior. Just because management looks the other way when people behave in an unprofessional manner, that doesn't make the behavior acceptable. But when you try to apply some peer pressure to these kinds of people, you get accused of eating your young. I have been a preceptor for 15 years, and I have oriented quite a few new people. My orientees always get a thorough clinical orientation as well as a lot of encouragement and moral support. Many of the people I mentored are still here, and are my friends. And I have mentored people from all age groups. It is not a generational thing. I work with people in their twenties who I would trust in any situation, and who are professional and competent. I have never asked anyone about their salary, I too think that is unprofessional. But there are people who volunteer that information. For some it seems to be a status symbol. I have even worked with a few people who brag about the fact that they are getting what they want before the long time employees. That is the kind of attitude that makes me angry at those particular people, as well as at management.Last edit by RNinICU on May 21, '02
May 21, '02The United States Court of Ap-peals for the Sixth Circuit in National Labor Relations Board v. Main Street Terrace Care Center, 218F.3d 531, 534 (6th Cir. 2000), recently joined several other United States Courts of Appeal in determining that a rule prohibiting employees from discussing their wages constitutes an unfair labor practice under Section 8(a)(1) of the National LaborRelations Act. Section 8(a)(1) makes it unlawful for employers to "interfere with, restrain or coerce employees in the exercise of certain protected rights..While most employers would prefer that their employees not discuss their wages, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit recently found a rule to that effect to be unlawful. In NLRB v Main Street Terrace Care Center, 200 WL 890892 (6th Cir. 2000), two different employees were told by their managers that they were not allowed to discuss how much money they were making with other employees because it caused hard feelings among employees. The National Labor Relations Board found that the rule violated the National Labor Relations Act, and the Court of Appeals affirmed.
It rejected the company's arguments that the rule was not written, nor did its managers have company authority to promulgate such a rule. It ruled that it didn't matter whether the rule was written or oral, since verbal warnings by supervisors who have the authority to discipline and discharge are coercive and tend to prohibit protected discussions.
Employers may not prohibit employees from discussing conditions of their employment with one anther - it's a protected concerted activity. Pay being a condition of employment, you can't prohibit "Joe" from discussing his pay with "Mary." But you can prohibit "Mary" from blabbing what Joe told her to somebody else and you certainly can enforce confidentiality standards for people in payroll, HR, managers, etcLast edit by ageless on May 21, '02
May 26, '02Just want to make it clear that it is not all new nurses who come into the profession feeling entitled. Most of the new staff I have dealt with are dedicated and professional. It is just a few who behave in this manner, and cause resentment among older staff.
May 26, '02First of all, I don't think "Ooops" will cut it in a court of law let alone bring a patient back to life!
Of course management hires new nurses and gives them preferential treatment, (and don't be surprised if they don't make more than you do too)!
Is it fair, NO! Why do they do it you ask... Beware of the nursing director who has less experience and/or time on the unit than you!
Some nursing directors are threatened by you if you've worked in a facility longer than they have.
They feel like the nurses they hire are "their" nurses and they think they'll be more loyal to them after all you came with the job but the newbies are their very own hand picked nurses.
Every place I have ever worked has been the exact same in this circumstance! Sometimes you can try to stand up for yourself but I am here to tell ya, alone you don't have much of a voice... You have a better chance of making a change as a group with a spokesperson but be careful if you happen to be the spokesperson... Most of the time the others will leave you out to hang by yourself!
I have never worked for a unionized facility but it would have to make things a bit fairer I would think... At least you don't have to worry about being the spokesperson who is singled out by management...
May 26, '02Thank you for your candid comments in this forum. I am a 2002 ADN graduate who will be starting in the ICU of a local hospital within the next couple of weeks (as soon as I get my letter that says I can take the NCLEX). One of the most important questions I had for the manager during my interview was about how the nurses felt about new graduates. I want to learn all that I can, but don't want to feel that I am in the way and not wanted. She, of course, said that it would be no problem, but I wanted to hear it from the nurses, you know, from those that will actually be training me. During my tour of the ICU they welcomed me and told me that they liked having "new blood." I only hope they don't have preconceived ideas about me because of someone else's wrong attitude.
I am so appreciative to have this opportunity! I want to be an excellent nurse, and cannot achieve that unless I am allowed to work beside excellent "senior nurses". It really hurts me to hear that some idiots are making a bad name for those of us that want to do a good job. I almost cannot believe some new nurses act the way you all described! I don't understand why a new nurse would rather be a problem than an asset. I only hope that all of you who had bad experiences with lazy new nurses get to train someone who is excited about her (or his) new career. Any nurse who acts in such an unprofessional manner as you all have described needs to be thrown out, shortage or not! I would much rather have to work harder with a team of people who enjoy their job and each other's company, than have more days off, but dread the days I have to be there.
And as far as salary and extras go, they don't matter much to me right now. I am in it for the experience. No sign on bonus, no tuition repayment, and I start on midnights, but I got my dream job.
Again, I am so sorry that you "senior nurses" got stuck with such unpleasant people, but PLEASE do not think all of us new graduates are like that. There are many of us out there that have utmost respect and love for you guys.
May 27, '02Ladyj, I can tell from your post that you will be a very welcome addition and your preceptors will LOVE you...most of us enjoy our young nurses/new hires; it's really only the FEW spoiled, egotistical ones that get to us.
There are a few bad apples in every barrel...old and new nurses alike...you will do well....just try to hang with the good guys.
You go girl.
May 27, '02I see both sides of the coin. But as a fairly new nurse, I am sick of having seniority and experience LORDED OVER ME by the "oldbies".
Comments about "earning" benefits such as the vacation time you want and a decent shift pattern. Are these not things that all workers should be entitled to? How long do I have to work in order for senior staff to NOT grumble about what I get in return for my hard work?
NO, I do not agree with longtime employees being bumped aside for shifts they want and days off or salary. But I think new hires and senior staff deserve equal parts of the pie. I have been "told" what break to take, had a patient assignment changed, and even had the comfy chair snatched when I got up - just because someone felt "seniority oughtta count for something". I'm entitled to equality, even as a new nurse. You want to be "recognized" for your seniority, fine - but lets think of ways that it can be done without crunching the toes of the new nurses, who are desperately needed in most places. And while we're at it, lets think of ways to recruit new nurses without walking all over loyal employees that have been there for years. But nobody should be pandered to - there are very few "perfect" jobs out there.
I agree with people who are saying that it is not the fault of the newbies for getting the golden eggs - It is management, and the general way the "system" is set up. It is about workplace culture, about mutual respect and professionals caring for each other.
I think that the way to reward longtime staff is NOT through preferential treatment - nor is this the way to lure and keep new staff. Yes, if you have big sign-on bonuses and offer good vacations, etc, you'll get more new people biting at the apple. But will they stay? No. The way to keep everybody happy is to provide a good, safe, happy work environment. You might not get an influx of new staff right away, but word will travel - and more people will stay. How many wards have a stable core of "senior" staff, and an ever-changing revolving door of new staff?
May 27, '02I'm going to be brutally honest here so please bear with me.
Nothing bugs me more than to hear stories like I'm going to tell, and I hear them way too often. A new grad will be coming onto the unit...and we all have to train him/support him. He NEVER works weekends, he NEVER works holidays, NEVER works extra and has a perfect set schedule every week of HIS choosing..... and he is making only a buck or so less an hour than me who has to follow behind him to make sure he's not harming someone (and he did).
I don't mean to be *****y here, but do ya'll get my drift? The rest of us STAFF THE UNIT ......around 'his' demands which are met. Yeah, management did it...but any wonder we don't love the guy?? (or our management team?)
May 28, '02I'm just a starting student nurse and ai wanted to tell something to the senior nurse after reading this thread... It seems that you guys are "not" taking care of YOURSELVES the way the the younger ones are... Nowadays nursing is a very moving and changing profession specially with the shortage... You guys don't get it: Loyalty does not work for management and you have said it countless times... Move on! I'm not saying to drop your jobs I'm just saying to look for better opportunities... If the new hires can get them, then be the new hire next time... Management has been taken on by the new hires and I think that the senior nurses (if they would let mgmt know) willl get more than the new hires... Geez who do you think trains the new ones: YOU GUYS.