BSN minimum requirement - page 5

It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year... Read More

  1. by   pickledpepperRN
    BSN as entry into practice is a good idea with two drawbacks:
    1. Those now in school or licensed must be "grandfathered" or we will have less RNs when we need more.
    2. The University nursing programs to provide the education for the numbers of nurses we need don't yet exist.

    PS This is my opionion only.

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  2. by   lablover
    Obviously nursing has a long way to go if we ever plan on getting anywhere as a profession. Never in my short career have I ever looked down upon another nurse because of her education level. I am an ADN nurse who is now working on a master's. Until we can join together as a group and work for a common good we will never achieve any goals. Come on people. We are in a desperate time right now with the nursing shortage and why in the world would any one want to join this profession after reading this post.

    [This message has been edited by lablover (edited March 07, 2001).]
  3. by   juliegayle01
    Originally posted by Brownms46:
    If you think the nursing shortage is going away...you must be totally out of touch with reality! I have been in nursing 22yrs, and when I started there was a nursing shortage. You want to know what has changed? It has become worse...not better! I also watched BSN come into the hospitals totally unprepared to function on the units, any units! And not only are they unable to function as well as 2yr RNs, they feel the basic nursing skills are beneath them! Give me a two or three yr. RN ANY day! I have watched these so-called "real" nurses ignore patient requests for bedpans, and really anything that might "dirty" those percious educationed hands of theirs! Yes two year RNs may dominate the field, but they are willing to do the work, and give the patients the care they desire! Give me a honest to goodness break...jeeze!
    Gloria
    Gloria,

    I am in a BSN program. However, I realize that a great deal of experience will be needed before I can even come near some of the 2 year RN's and LVN's I have worked with during my clinicals and my time as a nurse tech. I really don't think that it is a matter of years in college that make a really great nurse, it is a matter of calling. One who is called to be a nurse will put patient care at the foremost. One who is called to be a nurse will not quibble over years in school, but will recognize true nursing in anyone who exhibits it. There will be no time wasted over jealousy and infighting. We fight too much. If the future is going towards the BSN degree, then those who do not have a BSN should be valued, and their positions protected, and their pay scale graduated according to their expertise and experience during the transition (which should be slow). I have no problem with a wonderful, experienced LVN (LPN) making a salary commiserate with her skill and experience, even if it is more than a BSN. I guess what I am trying to say is that the worth of a nurse isn't necessarily in the degree she attains. I am sorry you are feeling attacked.
    Julie
  4. by   tonie
    This is the second bulletin board I have read tonight, and they seem to have similiar themes. The first was "Why does nursing eat its young?" By the replys that are posted here, the answer seems to be obvious. Everyone seems to interested in the number of hours I have spent in school (yes, I am an ADN student scheduled to graduate in May), and not in the extent or level of skills that my education has generated. The point that we all have to take the same boards is relevant, but that isn't all. We are encouraged to continue our educations when we finish this program, but to expand our educations, not necessarily to improve our clinical skills. In my state, we are required to have the same number of clinical hours logged as our four year degree counterparts, so I believe that the additional courses have to be in nursing theory, not bedside care.

    When I started my nursing education, my goal was to take care of my patients to the best of my ability, and that is still my goal this close to graduation. If a four year degree will enable me to do that, then that education will come in the future. At the moment, I feel I can competently meet nursing standards, even if some have reservations about my degree level.
  5. by   dawngloves
    WOW!
    I can't believe the way people talk to strangers. If these people were standing in front of you would you use the same language?
    And was I out the day they taught Potty Mouth 101?
    I hope you all are more cool headed nurses than you are debaters.
  6. by   bigjay
    Whew. Pretty lively discussion we got going here.

    Here's the thing. As is quite obvious by the preceding discussion there is a split in the current nursing environment among the various levels of education. Therefore, it is fairly safe to say that by creating a standard level of education we would likely reduce (not totally eliminate) this diversive factor.

    The question is what SHOULD be the minimum education level? Generally in the working world the higher the level of education for a job the greater respect it is given. Generally the greater degree of complexity and responsibilty of a job the higher the level of education required. Following this logic you could surmise that the BScN would likely be the ideal choice.

    To clarify I am NOT saying that a BScN necessarily makes you a better nurse, initially prepares you better or worse, gives you super powers, etc. When I say higher degree of education I am talking academic perception only. Very few people would regard a college diploma as higher than a university degree.

    I agree with sheripa's point that anyone can consider themselves a professional regardless of their level of education. However that does not mean others will share that view. I would consider a McDonald's employee who was polite, efficient and well mannered to act in a professional manner but I would not call them a professional. A slovenly attired, poorly spoken engineer would likely still be called a professional on the basis of their job and educational background. As well, if you go around calling yourself a "glorified butt wiper" don't expect many people to consider that professional....

    On that note, I agree that total care is an important part of nursing in many areas. Definately not the main part though. Assessment, intervention and evaluation, the nursing process is the heart of nursing. Total care may be the task that takes up most of your day but that's all it is. A task. Many people could do that. Many people besides nurses do. However what they cannot do is provide the comprehensive assessment and evaluation throughout the total care process that nurses do. They cannot formulate interventions based on their assessment findings... well some probably could but not with the degree of certainty nurses should be able to.... When I am cleanig feces off a patient, that is not what I am focussed on. I am assessing the factors why they are incontinent (probably obvious but not always), their skin condition, problem solving if they is any way to avoid incontince, etc. That is how I differ from others who could do that job. I bring my pracitcal experience and education with me through all my daily tasks. Nurses can do many things and do them all well. That is both our strength and our curse in my opinion.

    Cheers,
    J-P
  7. by   Sue Wernet
    Originally posted by Lburns:
    It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year program and will be finishing my BSN this semester. My school did a great job preparing me for "tasks" of nursing, but oh, it is so much more than that. Many other countries have moved or are moving towards 4yr degree minimums and the US needs to stay atop in this competative field. The nursing shortage will not always be here and it is to your advantage to get your degree now. The 2 yr programs will make a great footstep in the years to come, but the 4yr degree will become the RNs of the future. As nurses move into the 21st century we need to pull together to demonstrate our power as a profession, the only way to do this is to have strong, educated nurses in not just bedside tasks but critically thinking, politics, research and community health. Think about it, comments welcome.
  8. by   Sue Wernet
    Hi. I guess I'm a realist. I think alot of diploma and AD nurses go back to school to get their RN because hopefully doors to more higher paying nursing jobs and pay increases in nursing will come their way. It is so difficult to pay the bills these days and improve our lives and our families lives! Money opens doors in life and gives you more choices and most importantly security (to be able to save to live off the interest of your savings like my parents do) This is why we go back for our BSN and or MSN and even if we do we have to search for the higher paying jobs that are not stessful (higher stress is definitly not worth the increase in pay) Any way, the bottom line is income at a meanful job where a nurse feels he/she is providing a worthwhile service toward a heathy community! Education is always an asset, but the the main reason one gets the paper degree is to have more "choices" for income and less stressful jobs, thus improving ones life and the lives of our immediate families! What do others think about this?

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    SLW
  9. by   Sue Wernet
    Originally posted by Lburns:
    It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year program and will be finishing my BSN this semester. My school did a great job preparing me for "tasks" of nursing, but oh, it is so much more than that. Many other countries have moved or are moving towards 4yr degree minimums and the US needs to stay atop in this competative field. The nursing shortage will not always be here and it is to your advantage to get your degree now. The 2 yr programs will make a great footstep in the years to come, but the 4yr degree will become the RNs of the future. As nurses move into the 21st century we need to pull together to demonstrate our power as a profession, the only way to do this is to have strong, educated nurses in not just bedside tasks but critically thinking, politics, research and community health. Think about it, comments welcome.
    Hi. I just reread what I just submitted. I meant tosay that many diploma Rns and AD Rn's go back to school for their BSNs and/or MSNs to try to open doors toward better paying less stressful nurse jobs and in turn improve the quality of their lives and of their immediate families lives (that they are providing an income for).
    Maybe that will make my post clearer.

    What do you think about this?
  10. by   FamilymanRNBSN L/D
    Originally posted by sheripa:
    Get a life and eat ****!! Ha Ha.
    I think maybe there has been some miss understanding on my part. I was not responding to you but rather to Tim-gn or whatever his name is in your deffence. I agree with you completely, please reread my posting (both postings). My first posting is general but basically it agrees with your statements about our proffession. The second statement was in regards to the comments tim made about you being rpoud to be the first in your family, or something just plain ignorant...I didn't appreciate his shallow exchange and I know you didn't need me to deffend you or anything, but the guy was out of line an I could not stand the comments he made. Hope I bump into on the friendly side of things.
  11. by   timonrn
    It all boils down to this: Give me a good nurse anytime to back me up while my pt is laying on the floor bleeding out from a GI bleed, or having massive chest pains--I don't care if you are an LPN, ADN, BSN or a NA--If you are competent and helpful--that's what I need!! I'll sort out the credentials later!! (anyone who works charge knows what I am talking about). PS-I have a BSN and I'm tired of the remarks I hear all the time from people who think that it was a waste of education!! It is only a waste if you don't continue to make yourself a better nurse thru your education--don't stop at ADN or BSN--go and get BLS certified, then ACLS, PALS etcetc!! Our higher accuity pts need us to be better trained beyond basic nursing skills.
  12. by   emtrn2k1

    "AMen!!!!!!!". Instead of discussing how differently each one prepares a better nurse, whether to think or to 'be at the bedside'--why don't we all try to stregthen the profession and learn from each other. If we divide ourselves--how can we expect others to respect us as a profession. Remember a house divided against itself cannot stand--promote the profession, lets shoot for education promotion not necessarily letters behind a name. Question, how many states have mandatory education requirements--if so basic info.

    Thanks

    Nurses Rule!!!
  13. by   emtrn2k1
    GREAT CRITICAL THINKING GLORIA- NOW DID YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR BSN TO THINK OF THAT--OR DOes it come natural--is that possible that some people just have a natural ability to connect things without having someone put a 'real degree' behind their name --as opposed to a AS (must not be a real degree-whaddya think--sorry but some of this stuff just infuriates me--particularly the point that everyone wants a quick way out--I didn't want a quick way out--I wanted to be a nurse. I fully intend to get my BSN not because I don't want to do the care but because I want success for myself. Nothing more, I don't want to be a clinical coordinator--I'm too much of a people person. But I also want to be able to feed my children while I am pursuing my self-improvement. Nurses UNITE--support each other, and watch the profession grow. Bicker and watch it FALL even further apart.

    Originally posted by Brownms46:
    Bickering...B****ing?? I think not! Even though I totally disagreed with the original poster, I have enjoyed reading the posts that sprang from it. The following is a quote from one I truly enjoyed..."I do believe that BSN should be the level of entry for those reasons but mostly because it allows an individual nurse to easily walk forward from the bedside into other roles when (or if) she tires of the role that the ADN/diploma program so aptly prepares their students for"

    This post validated my original post! "Allows the individual nurse to easily walk FORWARD FROM THE BEDSIDE into OTHER ROLES when(or if)she TIRES of the role that the ADN/diploma program so aptly prepares their students for" Now lets see if my uneducated tired old brain can grasp this concept. Now tell me if I get it wrong now. So the ADN/diploma programs aptly prepare their students for...umm now let me see here...nursing?? Hold on..I'll get it ...if those programs prepare them to nurse at the bedside...umm where does the BSN/MSN programs prepare you to work?? Hmmm..must NOT be at the bedside..eh? Now..let me go even further here...oooh this means really stretching my brain matter ...hold on...neurons are firing...HEY..I get it. Get you ADN....go on to get your BSN/MSN...so you DON'T have to work at the bedside anymore...is that it??? OOOhhh ok...so now...if having your BSN should be the entry level to nursing...and all the BSN as getting away from the bedside...and there are no other levels of nursing...ummm...now let me see here.....WHO IS AT THE BEDSIDE??
    OOh don't tell me...IT's THE NEW GRADS!!! Now won't that increase superlative patient care. Yeah ...right!

    Gloria

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