Police use excessive force, ER docs say- What do ER nurses think - page 3

Heres the article link. My take is often as belligerent and uncooperative as they often are when the police have them in the ED I can only imagine how they are when they are being arrested. Having worked EMS as well as ED i... Read More

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Jan 12, '09 by Iam46yearsold

This is all interesting for the differing points of view.
Excessive force or not.
My father was at a Demonstration at USC in the old hippie days and he mouthed off to an officer who clubbed his head and laid a big flap over, that took a lot of repair work. My father would be the first to tell you he deserved for what he said. That is wasnt excessive. He never told me what he said to that officer.

But values are different nowadays
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Jan 13, '09 by Not_A_Hat_Person

Quote from TraumaNurseRN

I think a criminal is a criminal, and the police have learned through experience what works and what doesn't and the philosophy of safety to self first applies to them

Here in Boston, we've had a rash of police shooting unarmed civilians, including killing a passenger in a car they were pursuing, and shooting into a crowd after a Sox game. The cops got off evey time. Okay, there was a cvil case in the Sox crowd shooting, but only because the victim was White.

When Black kids are taught to only pull over where there are witnesses, because you never know, and not all cop cars have working cameras, you can't deny that police brutality is a problem.

Who watches the watchman?

BabyLady and
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Jan 14, '09 by rjflyn

The thing about it is the kind of person that it takes to be an ED nurse and a police officer are not really that far off. The biggest is people skills, leave out the actual pt care for us, law enforcement for them and in ways we are much alike- why do you think so many ED nurses are married to police officers.

That said I personally think with the drug and crime problem this country has coupled with the advent of the taser and pepper sprays we are lucky. I would think we would be seeing many more shot perpetrators if not for those options.

You also have to add the fact that in my career live time i.e. 20 years now, you mental health patients went from living someplace to being on the street. Unfortunately the police often times treat these people just like another criminal unless they have been specially trained as well. And we know how that works out, they can be more combative than most.

Rj
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Jan 14, '09 by gooberlilyRN

Hmm, depends on the observer. I work in a level 2 trauma center and I used to work on nights. It was crazy when the Legal BAs would trickle in. We would know when the bars closed because the line for them would be long. Anyways I think cops have a good hard job. They're out there putting their lives on the line every time they step foot out on the streets to try and keep my city safe.

I used to think excessive force in some cases but i wasn't out there when the person was being detained. People can get violent. Nowadays people are packing guns and shooting other people over the stupidest things (such as the guy who shot another in a theatre for making noise) What are they going to do to the cop who is trying to detain or follow up on a lead? At that point when the detainee has a gun and threatens to use it..it changes the scenery...the cops now shift into a different mode called survival and protection of others..so be it. And if it means extra people on this guy so be it.

Cops also have to be careful of crossing that fine line because if they do and the detainee has an injury...they sue and win, nevermind he was trying to resist arrest. But there are different circumstances.

So when they come in, cussing, spitting, wearing the beekeeper hat, being belligerent...what else am I supposed to think?

Lastly my ongoing joke when people would come in for a medical clearance and it involved a dog bite I would look at the cops with a straight face and ask them if they ever fed the dog. Sometimes a laugh..sometimes not but in these instances I understand if there is no humor at this point in time...
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Jan 15, '09 by Iam46yearsold

Lately there has been a whole rash of police assisted suicides. Where people create a scene or hold someone hostage or threaten another and force the police to fatally shoot them. Then afterwards we find a suicide note in their pocket. And that poor police officer has to live with the fact they shot someone fatally.
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Jan 17, '09 by nghtfltguy

it really all depends on the situation in my humble opinion..
i have used force before for the safety of the pt.. and for our safety as well....
the most memorable was we were flying this mva pt back to the facility.. well.. he was all kinds of drunk.... he started kicking and flailing trying to kick his way off the backboard... well.. it was a bit of a stormy night anyway and i sure as hell didn't wanna be in a crash cause of a drunk mva pt... well... i ended up giving him some vec IJ because he yanked his iv out and was bleeding all over the place and kicking us....it was a nightmare.... but.. uhh.. i did yell @ him and even hit him once before that... it was on my trip ticket... fully documented....
point is...
if you do use excessive force.. document it very well....
99.9% of the time.... you can get a doc to sign off on why you did it.. be it drugs or 4 point leathers.... just make sure in the long run you get a doc to sign off on it....
sometimes... in our field... excessive force is very much needed....
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Jan 19, '09 by GOMERNATOR

There are good cops, bad cops, good nurses, bad nurses, good mechanics, bad mechanics, etc. etc. Speaking for myself outside of work I am leery of them. They have far too much power and very little oversight. If a cop is unwarrantedly being excessive physically or verbally what is one's recourse? Pretty much nothing. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.