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- Mar 4, '11 by CuriousMeQuote from ccso962Neither of those are clinical Doctorates (I'm not sure what the DHSc is....Doctorate of Health Science, I know, but I don't think it's tied to a clinical role at all) so neither should use the title Doctor in a clinical setting.<snip>
As for the PA calling themselves doctor I worked with two PAs (both working in the ER) who had earned doctorates (one in Health Science (DHSc) and the other a PhD in Health Related Studies). Neither of these PAs saw any reason to refer to themselves as doctor so I don't know how the hospital would have reacted if they had.
Quote from ccso962Of course there will be discussion on a nursing board about this....I'm not talking about that. I've seen story's about this issue on mainstream news sites....and have yet to see any protests there about other professionals using their earned title.<snip> As far as people getting in a tizzy when DNPs want to be known as a doctor and not other providers I think this, again, may depend on the region of the country you are in. There is still plenty of discussion on the forums out there about whether a pharmacist should be called doctor for instance, and even within the pharmacy profession there is division on this issue. I think maybe it seems more like its all DNPs on this site, because this site is geared toward nurses. I can assure you though that on sites geared toward medical students, residents, etc. there is plenty of dissent for anyone other than an MD or DO to be called doctor.
And yes, I've read forums geared to med students and residents. I understand that many feel they own the term Doctor....but their opinions don't trouble me....they're hardly main stream.
- Mar 4, '11 by ccso962Quote from linearthinkerI agree that nurses should be more recognized, and, as I have said in other posts, I completely agree with a nurses right to earn a DNP. I guess the ultimate question is what will you be able to do with a DNP that you weren't able to do with an MSN (other than call yourself doctor)? As countless others, and not just me, have pointed out there is, in most programs, no increase in the medical science curriculum within these programs. Most of the "hate speech" I personally have heard lobbed at the DNP or doctoral prepared nurse in general from the medical profession is the fact that adding the DNP does not add additional clinical or medical competency since in most places it will only increase non-medical science areas. If it makes you feel any better there are many MDs that feel the same way about the change from BS to MS for most PAs.ITA that there is endless dissension on the subject among our MD colleagues. That neither surprises or upsets me. I don't like to see a lack of support from nurses, and I'm happy to see this tide turning.
If having the DNP makes you feel better about yourself and your profession that is great, in my opinion. However, if it adds nothing substantial to the patient care and scientific practice of medicine aspects of the job then I am not sure the DNP as an entry level program will garner any more respect from the MD community.
- Mar 4, '11 by ccso962Quote from CuriousMeHe actually got the DHSc for completing a PA residency and taking some additional classes while was in the one year PA residency, so it was very much tied to a clinical role. Just pointing this out since you said you weren't familiar with this degree. I think other places award a DHSc for things like radiographers, etc. who take extra classes and those may not be clinically oriented I don't know.Neither of those are clinical Doctorates (I'm not sure what the DHSc is....Doctorate of Health Science, I know, but I don't think it's tied to a clinical role at all).
- Mar 4, '11 by linearthinkerI am not really interested in "gaining respect" from the MD community. I think it is inevitable, but it isn't a primary goal or reason to pursue a DNP. So far I have taken 1 DNP course, and it has taught me that there is a ton of relatively crucial stuff I do not know, lol. I think the more I know, the better I'll do my job in all aspects. If everyone else learns the same stuff in their MSN program or on their own, great for them. I didn't and I'm just glad to have the opportunity. I don't really care about using the title Doctor. If arrogant people didn't try to tell me I can not, it would probably never have occurred to me to call myself anything but my first name! Speaking for myself, it was the naysayers that made it an issue!
- Mar 4, '11 by CuriousMe[QUOTE=linearthinker;4818413]I am not really interested in "gaining respect" from the MD community. I think it is inevitable, but it isn't a primary goal or reason to pursue a DNP. So far I have taken 1 DNP course, and it has taught me that there is a ton of relatively crucial stuff I do not know, lol. I think the more I know, the better I'll do my job in all aspects. If everyone else learns the same stuff in their MSN program or on their own, great for them. I didn't and I'm just glad to have the opportunity. I don't really care about using the title Doctor. If arrogant people didn't try to tell me I can not, it would probably never have occurred to me to call myself anything but my first name! Speaking for myself, it was the naysayers that made it an issue![/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree more!!
- Mar 4, '11 by linearthinkerWell that's really the bottom line for me. I am sure it is different for others. Personally, I don't know any NPs that go by Mr or Ms Lastname, so it just seemed really odd to me that a NP would further their education, earn the DNP, and suddenly go from being Sue or Tom, to Dr. Smith. Just really, really incongruent. However, if I had some jackarse telling me I shouldn't or couldn't, you bet your boots I would! I'm contrary like that, lol.
I used to be staunchly opposed (for myself only, I've always been indifferent to what others do) to using the title Doctor, but now I think I will, just to make the point (which is, I don't work for you, I am not subservient to you, and you are not the boss of me ) Had some not made such a federal case out of it, it wouldn't even have been a thought.
- Mar 5, '11 by ccso962Quote from linearthinkerLike I have said previously I am all for anyone who has an earned doctorate being allowed to call themselves doctor (even if its not a clinically oriented doctorate) in a clinical setting (i.e. a research biologist with a PhD working in a hospital's lab, etc.). However, I would have to say to call yourself doctor because its what you want to do NOT because some arrogant person says you can't. In my line of thinking, and this is purely my own opinion, this does nothing more than give credence and recognition to those arrogant people (and believe me they are in every field not just medicine). Essentially you HAVE allowed someone who has NO control over you to exert the control of frustrating you enough to make you do something you weren't going to do in the first place. The only exception to this that I would say is that when talking from health care professional to health care professional if you are going to respect the MD by calling him Dr. Doe instead of just John then I think he owes you the respect of calling you doctor in return (of course only if you have a doctorate). I have always enjoyed going to an NP or PA when I am sick or for a check up more than an MD or DO in part because the visit seems more personal. The NP coming in and saying "Hi my name is Denise, how are you today" (for example) has always seemed more personal than a stiff person walking in in a nice starched lab coat and saying "My name is Dr. Smith, why did you come in today?" That said again I realize this may just be me, but it is one of the advantages I have found with seeing a mid-level provider for my care. Another is that they seem to carry that personal tone throughout the visit and during subsequent visits. To me an NP walking in and announcing themselves as "doctor" whoever would seem too much like the trip to the ER where the resident physician who is a good five years younger than me walks in and dryly announces he is a doctor and will be in charge of my care. The doctor's I have seen who prefer to be called by there first name (I worked with a great DO one time who insisted his name was John and got upset if you called him doctor) seem to put me more at ease if for no other reason than it seems more like talking human to human. After all a doctorate is not some sort of access to be more than human it is just a representation that you may have spent more years in school than some of us have.If arrogant people didn't try to tell me I can not, it would probably never have occurred to me to call myself anything but my first name!
As always my two cents worth, and still enjoying the lively discussion on this board.
- Mar 5, '11 by linearthinkerYou have a point about effectively being coerced into something I didn't want. Last year, a physician friend of my father's told me in a very haughty tone, "I will never call you Dr." I said, "when you call Dr. Jones (another mutual friend and colleague) on the phone, do you call him John, or Dr. Jones?" He says "John, of course." I said, "then why would you ever call me anything besides Linear?" He was speechless for a second and then just laughed, and said "You got me." We made peace, and at Christmas he introduced me to everyone at his party as "about to be a Doctor of Nursing Practice." He actually said this with some pride.
The moral of my story is, I think the so called "war" will be won in the hearts and minds based on individual interaction. Colleagues will come to respect one another's individual talents and professional attributes (or not, lol.) I have always enjoyed the respect of physician and nurse colleagues because of my intellect and work ethic. While I have a learning curve to navigate as a new NP, I have no reason it will be different in my new role. I think the semantics arguments are best left to what my son calls "haters, and underachievers." I never had a lot of interest in it, and soon just wont have the time.
- Mar 5, '11 by ccso962Quote from linearthinkerI couldn't agree more. I think that this really sums up the issue. There will always be those little minded people who truly base all their self worth on what someone calls them, and they will insist that they should be the only ones to get that respect. Like you say, however, those that are in the profession for the right reasons will recognize the true professional by "individual interaction" and not by how arrogant they are over their title.The moral of my story is, I think the so called "war" will be won in the hearts and minds based on individual interaction. Colleagues will come to respect one another's individual talents and professional attributes (or not, lol.)
Now if we could just get everyone out there to see it that way... Good luck in your NP classes, and here's hoping you blow away the boards at test time.
- Mar 15, '11 by TeleMeMoreAhh I'm going numb with all of this! I just want to scream! I am in the same boat as the others who are recently admitted or already in a masters degree/NP program. When I graduate in 2014-2015 will I be able to freaking sit for the certification exam or NO?! Can this not be answered in a simple yes or no question? If not then I'm worried!
I just got all riled up because I was recently admitted into Depauls MSN/FNP program (I have a bsn now), and wanted to do it part time. The lady on the phone who is their academic advisor and kind of the head honcho of the nursing grad programs said it is possible and that I have 6 years to finish but the only problem is that in 2015 they are going to need a DNP degree to be eligible to sit. I told her I thought it was just a statement and nothing had been officially passed/changed - she said No, it passed, in 2015 you need a DNP to sit for certification. That they are admitting this last class and thats why there were swarms of applications.
WTH is going on? Did I just get lied to? How does someone in her position make such a bold statement without it being true? Or is it true? I'm in illinois and now, super confused.
I'm trying to research it but my head is hurting from it all!!