2015 DNP - page 15

by BabyLady | 84,744 Views | 235 Comments

I am wondering if anyone has heard any updates. Everything I keep seeing online from the AACN is "recommendation", "strongly encouraged", "highly suggested". I have yet to see anything, that says, "Look, either you... Read More


  1. 8
    I already took statistics and research as part of my MSN. I guess I don't understand why one would need MORE of it in a DNP. Advanced stats and research would more appropriately belong in a PhD program. The other stuff belongs in an MPH program.

    My ideal DNP program would have separate courses (with their associated pharmacology) in:

    1. Cardiology (with teaching how to read a 12 lead)
    2. Radiology (extensive teaching on reading xrays and CTs/MRIs)
    3. Pulmonology
    4. Renal
    5. Surgery (optional--pick one: general, ortho, etc)
    6. Elective (OB-GYn, peds, pain, primary care, etc.)

    Just my $.02 worth. I'm sure the AACN will be contacting me soon to ask me to elaborate on these great ideas.

    Oldiebutgoodie

    PS--Anybody else have great ideas for their ideal DNP program??
    Nurse2long, jjrodriguez, zoidberg, and 5 others like this.
  2. 2
    Quote from oldiebutgoodie
    I already took statistics and research as part of my MSN. I guess I don't understand why one would need MORE of it in a DNP. Advanced stats and research would more appropriately belong in a PhD program. The other stuff belongs in an MPH program.

    My ideal DNP program would have separate courses (with their associated pharmacology) in:

    1. Cardiology (with teaching how to read a 12 lead)
    2. Radiology (extensive teaching on reading xrays and CTs/MRIs)
    3. Pulmonology
    4. Renal
    5. Surgery (optional--pick one: general, ortho, etc)
    6. Elective (OB-GYn, peds, pain, primary care, etc.)

    Just my $.02 worth. I'm sure the AACN will be contacting me soon to ask me to elaborate on these great ideas.

    Oldiebutgoodie

    PS--Anybody else have great ideas for their ideal DNP program??
    I would be willing to sign up for that program! In addition, I would say add an advanced differential diagnosis course, a course dedicated to the prescribing of controlled substances (since some jurisdictions have a problem with this), a pain management course and an advanced psych course dealing with chemical dependency (re: drug seekers) and a specific course on when and how to make proper referrals. Add it all together and you get a practitioner who can handle most anything and would have the proper insight to protect their practice and their patients. I am not interested in Phd lite or MPH advanced, and that's what the DNP is. It's not bad, but it is not what is needed.
    jjrodriguez and CCRNDiva like this.
  3. 1
    Quote from bsnanat2
    I would be willing to sign up for that program! In addition, I would say add an advanced differential diagnosis course, a course dedicated to the prescribing of controlled substances (since some jurisdictions have a problem with this), a pain management course and an advanced psych course dealing with chemical dependency (re: drug seekers) and a specific course on when and how to make proper referrals. Add it all together and you get a practitioner who can handle most anything and would have the proper insight to protect their practice and their patients. I am not interested in Phd lite or MPH advanced, and that's what the DNP is. It's not bad, but it is not what is needed.
    What you guys are describing is a medical school curriculum, if that's what you're looking for then wouldn't going that route be better? My impression of the DNP is that aside from the rhetoric about "clinical focus", it's really a program that's focused on producing clinical leaders who have some knowledge of bedside management.
    eagle78 likes this.
  4. 2
    Quote from TicAL
    What you guys are describing is a medical school curriculum, if that's what you're looking for then wouldn't going that route be better? My impression of the DNP is that aside from the rhetoric about "clinical focus", it's really a program that's focused on producing clinical leaders who have some knowledge of bedside management.
    Unfortunately, those nursing leader pushing the DNP are stating that "Dr. Nurse" is equivalent to "Dr. Doctor". So we certainly need to have some of that material under our belts.

    http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/27/nur...128nurses.html

    Oldiebutgoodie
    CCRNDiva and bsnanat2 like this.
  5. 1
    The bottom line with the DNP is that it is a back handed way to get more academics, not improve practice. It is an academic wolf in clinical sheep's clothing.
    Again, not a bad degree, but certainly not what is needed.
    oldiebutgoodie likes this.
  6. 0
    Quote from bsnanat2
    I would be willing to sign up for that program! In addition, I would say add an advanced differential diagnosis course, a course dedicated to the prescribing of controlled substances (since some jurisdictions have a problem with this), a pain management course and an advanced psych course dealing with chemical dependency (re: drug seekers) and a specific course on when and how to make proper referrals. Add it all together and you get a practitioner who can handle most anything and would have the proper insight to protect their practice and their patients. I am not interested in Phd lite or MPH advanced, and that's what the DNP is. It's not bad, but it is not what is needed.
    OOOh! Yes! Differential diagnosis! Controlled substance class sounds good, too. Hey! We're on to something! (If only the AACN would listen).

    Oldiebutgoodie
  7. 0
    But alas, no one will listen because it makes sense. To the powers that be, sensibility and practicality are for fools. Ivory towers for the elite!!
  8. 0
    Quote from oldiebutgoodie
    Unfortunately, those nursing leader pushing the DNP are stating that "Dr. Nurse" is equivalent to "Dr. Doctor". So we certainly need to have some of that material under our belts.

    http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/27/nur...128nurses.html

    Oldiebutgoodie
    Mundinger and her minions are the only nursing "leaders" promoting the idea that DNPs are the equivalent of (if not superior to!) physicians. She certainly does not speak for the larger nursing leadership community -- this is her own little personal crusade.

    (Unfortunately, as the old saying goes, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease -- she and her extreme views end up getting all the publicity ...)
    Last edit by elkpark on Aug 20, '11
  9. 2
    Quote from oldiebutgoodie
    I already took statistics and research as part of my MSN. I guess I don't understand why one would need MORE of it in a DNP. Advanced stats and research would more appropriately belong in a PhD program. The other stuff belongs in an MPH program.

    My ideal DNP program would have separate courses (with their associated pharmacology) in:

    1. Cardiology (with teaching how to read a 12 lead)
    2. Radiology (extensive teaching on reading xrays and CTs/MRIs)
    3. Pulmonology
    4. Renal
    5. Surgery (optional--pick one: general, ortho, etc)
    6. Elective (OB-GYn, peds, pain, primary care, etc.)

    Just my $.02 worth. I'm sure the AACN will be contacting me soon to ask me to elaborate on these great ideas.

    Oldiebutgoodie

    PS--Anybody else have great ideas for their ideal DNP program??
    This sounds like what is needed at the MASTERS level too!! In my BSN program, we didn't have fluff bull classes, so I don't get why in my MSN we do. I hate that I have literally wasted THOUSANDS of dollars on classes in research methods, communication classes, and policy classes and learned nothing new. No great revelation came from any of those classes. However, having specialty info WOULD be useful. MORE CLINICAL SCIENCE PLEASE. Put those classes in the BSN if they need them so badly.
    Nurse2long and oldiebutgoodie like this.
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    Hi all:

    Just wanted to chime in with a few thoughts. First, I agree that it seems most DNP curriculum seems to be lacking with regards to what would be most beneficial versus theories, research, etc.

    That being said, I am now able to understand research/methods as well as able to differentiate between a study that is robust vs. one that looks good but, in fact, isn't. This is actually helpful for practice, but is also not the end all be all in practice either.

    One thing that I did enjoy about my MSN program was that besides research, etc., it also included another 30 hrs of advanced pharmacology specific to the track you were in. For me that meant an additional 30 hours in psychopharmacology on top of the 30 of advanced general pharmacology. Differential diagnosis was incorporated into our classes, and we used the same text books that medical schools are using.

    While we did have a class on evidence based practice and research, ethics, and informatics, the majority of our other classes were really more medical model based. We didn't have to suffer through nursing theory and we were required to do a total of 640 clinical hours with the exception of the FNPs who had to do more.

    I have a friend who attends a local university, and she is studying for her ANP. She has told me that while she feels she is acquiring a good education, it sounds like my program was more stringent and more medically based than hers, and I was in a psychiatric NP track. The ACNPs and FNPs in my class did get classes in xray and diagnostic study interpretation as well as suturing and a plethora of other experiences which I did not as they would most likely not be very useful in psych!

    I think the experience/education you receive all depends on what school/program you are in. Currently I am looking to go back for my DNP but I don't want just a "general" degree. I am hoping to find a good program which specializes in Family psych and which is based more on clinical/medical rather than theory and management which would be the most useful in real life practice. Most university's seem to have a curriculum that contains yet more research/statistics, and other courses that would seem to be more pertinent to a phd rather than a "doctor of nursing practice". It is pretty frustrating.

    Thanks for reading,
    Carla
    CCRNDiva and bsnanat2 like this.


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