PHS has taken over our prison

mdpetrasek · Dec 19, 2004

Well, some of my coworkers and I have been posting off and on to find out about PHS. Now we know first hand. Their benefits suck...very costly. Their time off is limited...12 days a year. They do not take the time to answer their new employees' questions as they are far too busy to bother. How unimpressive they are! Can't wait til their contract is done. Unfortunately it is a 3 year sentence.

Pattie,

I work for PHS currently and have worked for them for several months. I agree, the benefits are costly, over 400 dollars monthly for just dental and medical for families. However, it is good insurance, I have used them several times and am happy with United Healthcare. Health Insurance is costly, my neighbor pays over 500 monthly for their family. My bigger gripe though is no vision and no contribution to 401k. Strange. Pharmacy benefits are just average as well. As far as time off goes, you get 10 holidays as well, bringing your total time off to 22 days a year to start, not to bad. You get overtime as well if you work them. The bad part is you have to "float" your holiday 45 days prior or after holiday or you loose them. I have compared them to working at a state prison that makes you a state employee and found the pay to be less, but benefits of course are far far superior in every respect. You do make more money though, per hour at least, with PHS. Tough decision. There is always the risk to work for the state and have a private contractor take over the contract, especially these days with tight budgets and a increasing prison population and of course increased medical budgets the state has to pay. This is true in Oregon at least. The other thing with PHS is you have to use your vacation every year, or you loose hours, you can not save your vacation, period, same with sick pay. You reach a limit and you start loosing hours. You can not of course cash out your sick time upon retirement either, as you can with the state. Overall though I enjoy PHS, where I work it is fun and management is responsive to your needs. I have no experience with upper management as you seem to have, reading your past posts. As far as the PHS management who said there is no nursing shortage must be living in a vacuum, or he/she is trying to sell you a bridge. I would have to think seriously about quitting if I heard that kind of comment. It implies you are disposable and replaceable. Not true. RN's are in huge demand and the demand will only increase in the coming years. RN's are in more demand than upper management positions. Just look in the paper or read any government job outlook report to see the truth. Oh, one last benefit, is the stock purchase plan. It is nice. you pay 85 percent of face value of the stock, you can sell the next day or keep. PHS stock has done well (partly I assume because they are keeping costs down by limiting benefits) and it is a good savings plan. Talk to your financial advisor about this program for details. It may sound like I am unhappy with PHS, but I am not. It seems a good company so far. Hope this helps, dont think of it as a sentence, just maximize what you can from them. Michael, RN.

PS-I would love to hear from PHS on this board so they could explain things, their website is horrible and completely without information.

fiestynurse · Dec 23, 2004

Pattiecake - Is this your first experience with privatization or was the DOC contracted with someone else previously? The 3 year contracts usually have a couple of 1 year renewals attached to them, so PHS will probably be there for awhile. I suggest that you try and work within the system and go up the ladder to express your concerns. Speak to the employee relations person in HR or call the ethics hotline. PHS has over 7,000 employees nationwide, so you have to be persistent.

The benefit package is pretty standard for the industry. With the sudden rising costs of healthcare, PHS was near bankrupcy a few years back and had

to take away the 401K match. There are plans to give it back,now that the company is back on track. Also, PHS is self-insured and United Healthcare just manages the claims. When really put to the test, it is very comprehensive coverage. You get what you pay for.

fiestynurse · Dec 23, 2004

Found your response to the CMS post and now have a better understanding of the issue Pattiecake. Did you retain your position as the HSA when PHS took over? You obviously loved working for CMS, so it must be very tough to change companies. Don't be too quick to pass judgement - Give PHS a chance. PHS also has a great, week long, all expenses paid, orientation program for the management staff in Nashville. PHS has been in business longer than CMS and is really a better company to work for.

Your statement:

"I have worked for CMS for the past 4 years. I find them to be a very professional, accountable organization. My paycheck has never been wrong. They have a fabulous orientation program. They have excellent benefits and great time off. They are supportive of the staff. Management staff is oriented in St Louis, at an all expense paid week in the nicest Sheraton Hotel I have ever seen. It was the most comprehensive week of orientation I have ever had in almost 40 years of being a nurse. I cannot say enough good stuff about CMS. Unfortunately they have lost the contract in our area to PHS. Have no idea of what expect from them."

mdpetrasek · Dec 24, 2004

Not sure what industry standard fiestynurse is referring to. If you compare private run jails/prisons I suppose PHS is offering "standard" benefits. I believe when one talks of "industry" you are talking about situations where RNs are likely to be employed, and here PHS sadly lacks. If you compare them to hospitals in the PDX Oregon area, they are on the bottom end of things. Specifically, no vision, way overpriced health insurance that is average-look at your summary of benefits and you will see they are average or below average, but they do pay out without hassle, pay that is average or below average with no clear pay structure in place and only cost of living raises of 4 percent per year or so (you will find quickly that with no step stucture in place you will loose ground to hospital nurses) no 401k, no pension, the inability to carry vacation hours over 96 per year (hope you are not planning any long vacations!) they make it near impossible to use your sick hours unless you are having an appendage removed (sarcasm yes, but still difficult to use, plus they have no monetary value to you once you accumulate them). Your STD and LTD options are below average as well. These benefits not offered by PHS are industry standard at nearly all hospitals and is standard at ALL state and federal run jails/prisons. Nursing homes of course pay less and offer less benefits than either. Not to bad mouth PHS, I just wish they would bring themselves up to "industry standard" in the benefit department. I do like working for them, just offering some constructive criticism. Since I have detailed the negative about PHS its only fair to show some positive benefits- Jury pay, they pay the difference of regular pay and "pay" you receive for jury duty, stock options, decent tuition reimbursment, and at least in our jail, good management and providers. You have to like what you do, and I would never go back to the hospital, I just think when one talks of benefits, which is 20-40 percent of your salary, you need to look at the whole picture. If you can work in a hospital, you will find far superior pay and benefits, or work with state prison or county jail. Less pay here, but outstanding benefits. I choose to stay with PHS for various reasons, the least of which is pay and benefits.

fiestynurse · Dec 24, 2004

I was referring to industry standards for privately run medical departments in jails and prisons. Let me give you a clearer picture of your benefits. First of all, the vacation time is 96 hours until the third year of employment, then it goes up to 120. You do have the option of cashing out any unused vacation at the end of every year. It's not dollar for dollar, but it at least prevents you from losing it all together. All of this is meant to encourage employees to take their vacations, so they do not burn-out. My vacation requests have always been approved and I make sure that I take my vacations. I have also cashed out some of my vacation time and it is nice to get that extra money around Christmas.

PHS tries to keep their wages competitive, but we also are limited by the terms of the contract and how much money the Counties or States have given us to perform services. A 2-4% increase is sometimes supplemented with a market increase for your geographical area. When a contract is up for renewal, PHS does fight for wage increases if there has been difficulty retaining and recruiting nurses. Many PHS facilities are offering sign-on bonuses and referral bonuses. Shift differentials are decent. Lets see, PHS nurses in the PDX Oregon area are making around $25-$30/hour. No heavy lifting or bedpans. It is considered Ambulatory, Outpatient care and can not be compared to the hospitals. One of my friends just started a job at one of the large ambulatory clinic chains in the PDX area and is making $23/hr and the benefits are not as good.

It is easy to access longterm sick leave because it automatically kicks in on the 3rd day of your illness. The first 2 days are taken out of your PTO bank. The last large hospital in that I worked at in 1998 - it was set-up the same way. I also lost 12 years of accumulated sick leave when I left that hospital. This is not unusual or unique to PHS.

The amount of money that employees have to pay for health insurance is going up all over the country and is also not unique to PHS. PHS is self insured and costs went up due to some catatrophic events that sucked the pot dry over the last few years. Many of these claims involved newborn preemie care.

The grass is always greener on the other side!

mdpetrasek · Dec 24, 2004

I was referring to industry standards for privately run medical departments in jails and prisons. Let me give you a clearer picture of your benefits. First of all, the vacation time is 96 hours until the third year of employment, then it goes up to 120. You do have the option of cashing out any unused vacation at the end of every year. It's not dollar for dollar, but it at least prevents you from losing it all together. All of this is meant to encourage employees to take their vacations, so they do not burn-out. My vacation requests have always been approved and I make sure that I take my vacations. I have also cashed out some of my vacation time and it is nice to get that extra money around Christmas.
PHS tries to keep their wages competitive, but we also are limited by the terms of the contract and how much money the Counties or States have given us to perform services. A 2-4% increase is sometimes supplemented with a market increase for your geographical area. When a contract is up for renewal, PHS does fight for wage increases if there has been difficulty retaining and recruiting nurses. Many PHS facilities are offering sign-on bonuses and referral bonuses. Shift differentials are decent. Lets see, PHS nurses in the PDX Oregon area are making around $25-$30/hour. No heavy lifting or bedpans. It is considered Ambulatory, Outpatient care and can not be compared to the hospitals. One of my friends just started a job at one of the large ambulatory clinic chains in the PDX area and is making $23/hr and the benefits are not as good.
It is easy to access longterm sick leave because it automatically kicks in on the 3rd day of your illness. The first 2 days are taken out of your PTO bank. The last large hospital in that I worked at in 1998 - it was set-up the same way. I also lost 12 years of accumulated sick leave when I left that hospital. This is not unusual or unique to PHS.
The amount of money that employees have to pay for health insurance is going up all over the country and is also not unique to PHS. PHS is self insured and costs went up due to some catatrophic events that sucked the pot dry over the last few years. Many of these claims involved newborn preemie care.
The grass is always greener on the other side!

I appreciate your desire to clarify my benefits. I understand them fairly well and agree with most of what you say. As far as it being an ambulatory care clininc and having no bed pans and heavy lifting, that may be true but there are other factors. Such as being in a dangerous environment, some may say it is safer than a hospital and that may be true, though the concentration of folks who may wish to do you harm are far higher in jail than a hospital. And yes assaults do happen in jail against staff. Also you will not find a more litigious group of folks on the planet as well. This should factor out any comparison to ambulatory care clinic and pay should be increased as well. Not to mention the fact we are open 24/7,365. Yes there are differentials, but much lower than local hospitals (tend to be 5 plus dollars on nights and 1.75 plus for weekends vs 3 dollars for nights and no weekend diff for PHS) I have many RN friends, all who work at hospitals who are shocked at what I tell them about benefits and pay. It does not compare. If your friend accepted 23/hr with poor benefits, he/she should do a little shopping, those are not competitive at all. Again, I am a happy PHS employee, I could go anywhere I wanted to and choose to stay here. I do not mean to sound like I am bashing anyone, just presenting the facts so someone does not get mislead by others. I am looking forward to a long career with PHS and hope to move up the chain. I have only been there a few months and actually enjoy going to work. I guess the fit is more important the the pay and benefits, just wish they could improve them a little. Merry Christmas to everyone! Michael, RN.

I have been on the other side, prefer the view from here thank you very much.

fiestynurse · Dec 25, 2004

Another thing to consider is staffing ratios. PHS has a certain inmate/nurse ratio that they will not go under. After 27 years in the business they no how many nurses it takes to provide quality care. The contracted staffing matrix has to be followed. This means you can't be short staffed to save money and you can't be sent home if it gets slow (highly unlikely in a jail) If someone calls in sick, we have to find a replacement. Sometimes management has to cover a shift. I can't tell you how many times I went to work as a hospital nurse and found out we were 2-3 nurses down and we would just have to "do the best we can" to get the job done.

Also, in corrections you don't have to float to an area that you have no expertise in.

Some PHS sites do have weekend differentials, charge differentials, and even preceptor differentials. It all depends on your budget and what your individual HSA can arrange. Other PHS sites are offering a $4/hr night shift differential. Do a good market wage study and present it to your HSA or Regional VP. The best time to ask for these things is during a contract renewal when PHS is asking for more money to run the medical dept.

Merry Christmas!

mdpetrasek · Dec 25, 2004

Another thing to consider is staffing ratios. PHS has a certain inmate/nurse ratio that they will not go under. After 27 years in the business they no how many nurses it takes to provide quality care. The contracted staffing matrix has to be followed. This means you can't be short staffed to save money and you can't be sent home if it gets slow (highly unlikely in a jail) If someone calls in sick, we have to find a replacement. Sometimes management has to cover a shift. I can't tell you how many times I went to work as a hospital nurse and found out we were 2-3 nurses down and we would just have to "do the best we can" to get the job done.
Also, in corrections you don't have to float to an area that you have no expertise in.
Some PHS sites do have weekend differentials, charge differentials, and even preceptor differentials. It all depends on your budget and what your individual HSA can arrange. Other PHS sites are offering a $4/hr night shift differential. Do a good market wage study and present it to your HSA or Regional VP. The best time to ask for these things is during a contract renewal when PHS is asking for more money to run the medical dept.
Merry Christmas!

Sounds like a good idea. Our HSA is a good guy who is always willing to listen, and at least attempt to make PHS more competitive. I appreciate all of your advice and passing of knowledge about PHS to others, obviously you have good infomation and I have learned from your posts! I do not completely agree with your sick RN scenario though, I first hand have come in and have had one RN and one LPN covering our 650 plus inmates because someone has called in. Does not happen a lot, though more often than it should. This is common everywhere though, especially with shortage of RNs in the workplace and tight budgets. Take care, be safe, Michael.

babs_rn · Jan 14, 2005

I worked for PHS years ago. Brief history, CMS had been in and was under just a personnel contract for the state DOC - (which was much better working conditions, by the way - things made more sense back then) - the state decided to go "managed care" and there was a bidding war and lawsuits between CMS and PHS - even CMS underbid what they knew they could reasonably do the job for, and PHS underbid them so in they come. When they introduced themselves, they told us they served 14 states at that time and the numbers they gave us indicated that our ONE state would DOUBLE the number of inmates served. We knew then they were biting off more than they could chew.

Yep benefits were bad then. And their policies were not particularly user-friendly - nor was their approach (we GA gals chalked it up to their "yankee" frame of mind hurting our sensitive Southern feelings because there was absolutely NOTHING personable about them. They had to re-negotiate salaries with entire facilities because they were cutting people's salaries left and right and entire medical/nursing staffs were walking out. It was a MESS.

And for the record...they could NOT fulfill their contract with the state because they DID way underbid and could not do what was requested...they forfeited a $10M "performance bond".

Good luck with them. They can be rather questionable in the way they do business. Short-sighted and all about the bottom line.

B.

fiestynurse · Jan 15, 2005

I don't know how many years ago that was, PHS is under completely different management now. They learned from the mistakes of the past.

babs_rn · Jan 16, 2005

I don't know how many years ago that was, PHS is under completely different management now. They learned from the mistakes of the past.

Yeah it has been awhile. Only way I do corrections now is with the agency though - here in GA the company that has it now has some ridiculous policies and low pay rates so actually many of the prisons are staffed with almost nothing but agency nurses. We know where our bread is buttered. I do it prn on the side.