Why is unionization a subject of taboo??

vcurrent2 · Oct 19, 2011

Hey wanderlust, I have recently stopped working for a hospital who is union, and I have to say I am very thankful for them. Though I have to admit, the same things happen on my tele floor on NOC even though we are union. At least we have the ability to take it to mngmt and they are under contract to make it right. I am in AZ now and I see there are no unions here either. I am a travel nurse and will be starting my job on tele next monday. I am hopeful there is no need for unionization here. My old hospital had an excellent working relationship w/the union. It just provided the nurses 'one voice' if something was going wrong. I very much support nurses supporting one another, and if that means union, so be it. And you're right, don't bring it up to mngmt, though I don't know what they fear.

Chiggysmom · Oct 19, 2011

I would say that's a pretty darn good synopsis of the situation. :crying2:

Hospitals consider unions to be taboo, because, if their workers unionze, they lose their legal "slaves", which is what workers in right to work (mostly the south), have become.
They have merely exchanged their "slaves", for employees. They no longer can control and terrorize their employees when there is a union who has made the employer sign a contract with their employees, so they can no longer fire workers at will, change working conditions, pay, etc. They have lost the abilty to control their employees. And they are not happy about their loss of control. They want to have total control over their employees.
THAT is what the union debate is all about. Workers who are tired of being treated like dirt, compensated like dirt, while the employer has top of the line pay, benefits, "perks", while the peons are doing the work.
JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, RN,BSN, CCRN
Somewhere in the PACNW

Chiggysmom · Oct 19, 2011

Craziness! Btw the "slave" analogy is so true!
And the sheep continue to follow...

Yep, that's exactly what I thought!

Chiggysmom · Oct 20, 2011

I lived and worked in a right to work state. Unions did try to organize and every single RN that went to the meetings were fired. All of them had to move out of the area in a greater than 200 mile radius to get a job. We worked low pay and higher patient loads as the norm and basically had no voice. If it ever got to a vote, I still don't think it would fly. Another poster suggested neocons would fight if from pulpits-true, but RN's somehow believe being in a union is UNPROFESSIONAL. I can't tell you the number of talks we had about it. (Notice I said talks not arguments) The number one thing I heard was--I went to college--or I'm not a blue collar worker, or if nurses were suppossed to be unionized the JCAHO would mandate it. Seriously, I envied the unionized nurses.

My husband is an engineer (read very white collar) and where he works they are trying to get union in there and why? Simply because the management and HR are underpaying them (as compared to the other engineers across the country) and cutting their benefits and freezing their pays for two years (that's a significant amt. of money, even for one year!) and . . . talking about doing it for a third year! That's how these things get started, it doesn't matter if you're conservative or liberal, white collar or blue collar. When you have malcontented employees that feel they are way undervalued and compensated that's how they become vulnerable to the union talk!

Chiggysmom · Oct 20, 2011

Now lets address this confrontation issue straight on . I hear so often anti unionist bemoaning the unions causing the us versus them attitude of employer / employee relationships , but heres the thing if thoses conditions didn't exist before the union comes into a facility it would not become unonized ( no staff / employee grievance = no discontent = no union ) .It is poor management that opens the door to union organization of a facility . If employees had a non adviserial relationship with their employers , a organization drive would be doomed to failure .
So wake up and smell the rose it is poor management that creates an adverserial work place and a poor management , who rather than work with their employees through the union that represents them , continues to irritate staff by not acting in accordance with the contract .
The best recruitment / retention tool unions have is poor management .

This is so-o true! A Union doesn't stand a chance in a work place where the employees feel valued, are fairly compensated and have a say in some of the decisions that come down!

Chiggysmom · Oct 20, 2011

Any industry works best when there is a balance of power between labor and management .
I lived in the UK when unions were too powerful , there were too many strikes and industries failed , Margaret Thatcher redressed that balance and labor relations settled . I have now lived and worked in the USA for > 20 years management here is too powerful , they change work conditions on a whim and downsize , just because they are not making enough profit or because an employee has seniority and is more expensive than a new employee would be .
To those of you who think your stellar appraisals and good work ethic makes you think you are untouchable , just look back at contribution #25 by onlyone nurse .
The adversarial atmosphere that is between labor and management comes about , because management is used to acting upon it whims , it is not happy when the union points out an action is against the contract , its own policies and /or the law , often like a toddler who is told no , it has a tantrum rather than work to resolve the problem .

You are so-o right about this!

jkesler · Oct 20, 2011

Now who's acting like sheeple? If this isn't a great example of herd mentality, I don't know what would be. I'm supposed to put aside my own beliefs to support a union, even though its leadership may throw my hard-earned dues to causes I don't believe in? I DON'T THINK SO.
If you want to belong to a union, go ahead.......it's your choice, and if nurses like me have our way, it will always remain your choice. Please respect my choice not to belong.
JMHO and my two pence worth.
Marla, RN, CMSRN, DNS
Also somewhere in the PACNW

You do know that if you belong to a union that you can ask not to pay for the portion of your dues that support political causes that the union supports or contributes to?

Or maybe you don't because you keep saying you don't want to support unions because they spend dues money on causes you don't support.

in most unions approximately 95% of all the dues pay for collective bargaining activity. If you are a member of a union you can ask for them to show you what they spend the dues on. It's a federal law that they have to report those details anyway.

And you have the right to ask not to pay for that part of your dues that support political activity. And the union has to reduce your dues by that much.

Maybe there are some other things you don't realize about unions? :)

mbdirt · Oct 20, 2011

Yes, just look for the Scrub Tops with SEIU, NNU/CNA/NNU logos. Here are just a few documented leftisits in nurses unions as documented in Keywiki.
Keywiki is a one-stop shop where one can see if YOUR State Nurses' Assn or Union is headed up by Communists or whatever. Better check them out before your friendly NNUOC member gets this info booted from this site.
http://keywiki.org/index.php/Marilyn_Albert
http://www.keywiki.org/index.php/Sandy_Eaton
http://www.keywiki.org/index.php/Dee_Myles
http://keywiki.org/index.php/Chuck_Idelson
http://keywiki.org/index.php/Jan_Gilbrecht

Looks like only one, Idelson, is employed by a union HQ. As for the nurses marching, I saw only one picture with some SEIU scrub tops in it.

I have 3 NNOC scrub tops and an AFL-CIO T-shirt. Does that make me a communist? My minister and employer would be surprised to hear it, not to mention my wife and the Democrats that I have voted for for 20 some odd years.

I am wondering if you are equating communism with socialsim and liberalism. They ain't the same. Also, if I remember right, people have a right to belong to whatever political party they choose, no matter how much others may dislike it. I dislike Republican votes. I have Republican friends, but I don't assume that they all carry guns, would rather put someone to death than do a DNA test to prove innocence, or are against ALL taxes.

I don't think unionization has any communistic connotations in the US. Maybe in Europe, where it has been infiltrated and even led by Communist party at times, but not here. I think the word "union" scares management because they would lose power and lose money to lower ranking employees instead of raking it in themselves.

nana68 · Oct 20, 2011

Hey everybody,
I work on a busy telemetry floor in Florida. Most days/nights (I work both) I am running around like crazy trying to get everything done with minimal time to take a break, go to lunch, or go to the bathroom. Pay is not that great and I feel as if upper mgmt continuously send patients that are not appropriate acuity for our floor. We are staffed 5:1 and have rapid responses/codes daily and are always shipping people off to the ICU for higher level of care. Also, our charge nurse usually takes patients and we are usually also short staffed a tech leaving the individual RN to fend for ourselves.
I know it is like this everywhere (at least on telemetry units)....sooooo why aren't nurses banding together to stop this? Why is it such taboo to talk about starting a nursing union in Florida (or in other states for that matter)?
In a private conversation with my ANM (who I have grown close with through the ups and downs of our crazy floor), I asked her this same question. She totally freaked out on me and refused to even say the word "union" out loud suggesting that if someone overheard us, we could be fired on the spot. What? Seriously? I'm not saying that unionization is the absolute answer but maybe blending some of their ideas with our own to make for a better workplace for all. Why are we not allowed to even talk about it out loud? This isn't a dictatorship. And nurses continue to put up with this. They say things like, "It is what it is." Actually, usually, it is what it shouldn't be.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. As a disclaimer, I am very thankful to have a job and I do enjoy taking care of my patients. Have a great day!

Answer is very simple. Hospitals do not want unions. There are actual printouts handed to nurses telling them how bad unions are. I have seen them. Here in Texas, right to work state means anyone on any job can be fired at will. You don't even have to be a bad worker, your boss or even a co worker may not like you for any reason and you are gone. Two nurses were fired for turning a bad doctor in to the medical board without giving their names. Word got out, they seized their computers and they were history. No concerns for the patient. It is a bad situation for nurses without a union but they are so intimated by the hospitals they are too afraid to organize and stick together. It is very sad, nurses deserve good pay, safe situations when they are given too many patients and that is an on going situation here in Texas hospitals. Now Texas passes a law that the medical board can not act if the complaint is not signed, but if they sign they are fired. Safe Harbor is not to be trusted either. I can only hope that someday nurses get fed up with the disrespect they get and will band together. Nurses are Angels of Mercy, caring professionals who deserve the best.

Cmatt13, BSN, MSN · Oct 20, 2011

I've often wondered the same thing. You know, we're the largest group of employed professionals IN THE COUNTRY. If all 2.6 million of us (as of 2009) worked as one entity, and came together into collective bargaining (in one form or another) we could move mountains.

Unions are like the bogeyman, though. Much of it is disinformation rather than people actually investigating it themselves, and some of it is cultural. I know many nurses who have moved to the states from other countries that don't see the point, and feel that to challenge the basis on which they have emigrated to the US, ie nursing jobs, may cause them trouble in more areas of their lives than just employment.

Fair enough, but until we all band together, we will be but 2.6 million individuals. And it's much easier to control the masses if they aren't all on the same page.

Nursecathy123ca · Oct 20, 2011

There IS a growing nurse union movement. It started in California and is spreading like wildfire. It would be great to have backup when telling hospital management that 6 patients per med/surg shift is 2 too many!

My concern is that the union remain in the control of working nurses, not a union management organization.

muesli · Oct 20, 2011

Because unions and employers (hospitals) are at odds with one another. Unions exist to demand workplace privileges that aren't being granted to them by the hospital via power in numbers, and threat of strike. This comes at some sort of sacrifice by the hospital management, because for example better staffing ratios mean more money must be budgeted for staffing. You can discuss the moral implications of it, I'm not trying to come down on either side here; I'm just saying that hospital management does not get warm fuzzy feelings when thinking about unions.