Professionals or "workers" - page 9

by blackribbon

10,777 Visits | 97 Comments

I am attending nursing school in Michigan, a very "union" state. I have recently moved here from Texas, a right to work state. There is a big political issue going on here about Right-to-work. And until people started posting... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Not wanting to be abused is a far, far different thing than wanting to be taken care of.
    Apparently not all that far in some professions. If a person does not want to work where she feels (or is) abused, that person can and should leave. Expecting some union "leaders" to fix it for them is a very ineffective means of dealing with it.
  2. 7
    Quote from Overland1
    Apparently not all that far in some professions. If a person does not want to work where she feels (or is) abused, that person can and should leave. Expecting some union "leaders" to fix it for them is a very ineffective means of dealing with it.
    IMO, it's not a matter of "expecting some union 'leaders' to fix it," it's a matter of everyone working together to fix it. I was raised in the South, in a "right to work" state, in an anti-union family, but it's always seemed pretty simple to me -- management is certainly "organized" to protect its interests; it seems only fair that workers should also be organized to protect their interests. Just leveling the playing field a little ...
    multi10, KelRN215, lindarn, and 4 others like this.
  3. 5
    Quote from Sirius Squint
    Ive recently realized myself that its a touchy subject. My father in law has a bumper sticker that reads union with a circle around it and a line across it (anti union) I dont get it. But Im completely ignorant on the subject
    I think it's even more touchy with nurses because historically, nurses deal with martyr archetype. How dare the angel of mercy want more pay and benefits? She is on the picket line and leaving her patients inside the hospital to suffer! Old attitudes die hard. Unfortunately though, both sides use the plight of patients as a political pawn. It's not a black and white situation.

    I remember when the union got enough petitions for a vote at the hospital I worked for in the mid-70s. It was all out WAR. Absolutely insane. The union lost then. Since then I've watched the union's opposite number in that battle and other companies I've worked for run rampant over worker's rights, completely destroying what the management at my old hospital did to make them more attractive than the union.

    No union just means there is only one power broker in the game. Had that one power broker acted responsibly then, that hospital and many others would not be union hospitals today.
    KelRN215, laborer, lindarn, and 2 others like this.
  4. 0
    Quote from elkpark
    IMO, it's not a matter of "expecting some union 'leaders' to fix it," it's a matter of everyone working together to fix it.

    Exactly. If something is wrong, it is up to those who have something to gain or lose (aka, "stakeholders") to fix it.


    Quote from elkpark
    I was raised in the South, in a "right to work" state, in an anti-union family, but it's always seemed pretty simple to me -- management is certainly "organized" to protect its interests; it seems only fair that workers should also be organized to protect their interests. Just leveling the playing field a little ...
    Management should be organized and effective in protecting the interests of the hospital and its patients; that includes being reasonable with staff, which in turn must be individually organized and reasonable toward management and each other. The idea that this has to be an "us vs. them" scenario will only create hardship in the larger scheme of things. Teachers are recently finding this out, and many other industries have already learned this; sadly, few of either group has learned from this.

    I guess I am not as into "leveling the playing field" as much as I am into doing the right thing for the patient and doing the best I can do at the job. If I believe I am not being paid adequately for my work, I move on. When people realize this, then poor management will have no choice but to straighten out its act, or close down. I do not want some clown "representing" me and I certainly do not want my money being used for something I do not wish to fund nor support. I know what I want and I pursue that, plain and simple.
  5. 3
    Quote from RNdynamic
    I don't agree. Leave your feelings out of this and try to discuss this intellectual matter seriously, please. It is very true that unions in most cases are utilized by laborers, not autonomous professionals -- which is what nursing is supposed to aspire to. By denying this, you help to hold back the profession.
    I call BS again.

    I didn't deny that unions are also comprised of laborers; I responded to the characterization of union nurses as "demeaning."

    Feelings had nothing to do with it. Starting a conversation by tagging the joining of a union as "demeaning" is inflammatory, whether you choose to ignore it happened or not.
    laborer, lindarn, and BrandonLPN like this.
  6. 0
    Quote from Overland1
    ... that includes being reasonable with staff, which in turn must be individually organized and reasonable
    Entertaining oxymoron ...
  7. 0
    Quote from Overland1
    Apparently not all that far in some professions. If a person does not want to work where she feels (or is) abused, that person can and should leave. Expecting some union "leaders" to fix it for them is a very ineffective means of dealing with it.
    *** Um OK. I see your mind is made up and no amount of facts will change it. BTW If I were you I would stop putting words into others mouths and thought into their heads like you do in the above quote. You really really suck at it.
  8. 5
    Quote from Overland1
    If I believe I am not being paid adequately for my work, I move on. When people realize this, then poor management will have no choice but to straighten out its act, or close down. I do not want some clown "representing" me and I certainly do not want my money being used for something I do not wish to fund nor support. I know what I want and I pursue that, plain and simple.
    *** Managment has already sucessfully eliminated the "I'll just leave option". For the las 20 years they have been putting out the false and self serving "nursing shortage" propaganda. Their goal is to create a nurse oversupply siuation. To make matters even worse managment has even gotten nurses to pay for their own destruction by lobbying state and federal governements for massive amounts of nurses tax money to expand and increase the number of nursing programs This benifits them in several ways, primarily among them is it removes managments need to treat it's nurses well for fear they will vote with their feet.
    monkeybug, lindarn, wooh, and 2 others like this.
  9. 3
    Quote from Overland1
    Apparently not all that far in some professions. If a person does not want to work where she feels (or is) abused, that person can and should leave. Expecting some union "leaders" to fix it for them is a very ineffective means of dealing with it.
    You don't understand what unions do. It's called COLLECTIVE BARGANING. The union fights to extract the highest possible compensation (in the form of wages and benefits) from the employer. If an employer is abusing their employees, that employer should be held accountable. Why should the employee leave? Unions hold employers accountable. Why should employers hold all the cards?
    multi10, KelRN215, and lindarn like this.
  10. 0
    Quote from wooh
    Apparently any time that is spent in school not "learning the trade" is a waste according to most of the threads.

    *** Yes you are right. The BSN only crowd does believe that. The evidence for that is the fact that ADN + bachelors degree does NOT equal BSN. About 1/3 of our local ADN sudents already have a bachelors or higher degree when they enter the ADN program.


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