INCREDIBLE CNA/NNOC victory in Houston. - page 19

I'm posting this fast, and don't yet have all the details, but here is what I do know: CNA just won a representation election for the RNs at Cypress Fairbanks Hospital, a part of the Tenet chain in... Read More

  1. Visit  vlynnieg profile page
    1
    txdude35, I understand your position of dealing with the situation the best you can and just wanting to make sure if your'e forced to deal with them, might as well have a say. I also can see your colleagues' position and how they might see this as a betrayal of sorts. There are no easy answers. Follow your conscience. If the Union is truly all about people getting treated properly, then in theory you should not have a problem if you choose not to join. I personally elect not to join, but I respect the thoughtful process that brought you to your decision to do otherwise. I hope for the best for you.
    herring_RN likes this.
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  3. Visit  herring_RN profile page
    1
    Quote from txdude35
    Got blasted last night from a couple people who supported the union from the beginning. Said I was jumping on the bandwagon and in their opinion couldn't hold any position of responsibility since I wasn't in it from the beginning. Tried to tell them that I was adapting to a new situation but they couldn't understand that.

    Ignorance like that is hard to combat. Neither one of them had any idea that 2 positions will be decided, 1 for bargaining council and 1 for union rep. Neither one had any idea what the responsibilities of _either_ position entail. And they tell me they're "going to run for something because we deserve it."

    This is going to be fun.
    I like your passion for your patients and colleagues.

    I hope you can express this and that your fellow nurses understand.

    One of our finest nurse representatives was against the union. She was a witness for management. She is well respected and fair. Worked much extra time to educate her fellow nurses regarding staffing by acuity. She was instrumental in getting safe staffing for patients receiving chemotherapy, bot competency (certification) and fewer patients (2 patients only until the assigned RN determines the patient is stable enough for the RN to take a 3rd patient. Specialty units have a ratio of 1:4.

    And she has prevented terminations based on misunderstandings by taking notes and asking questions to clarify what was said.
    lindarn likes this.
  4. Visit  txdude35 profile page
    0
    We'll see what happens. Everyone votes on these positions and unfortunately for them neither has much respect on the unit.
  5. Visit  herring_RN profile page
    0
    Quote from txdude35
    Got blasted last night from a couple people who supported the union from the beginning. Said I was jumping on the bandwagon and in their opinion couldn't hold any position of responsibility since I wasn't in it from the beginning. Tried to tell them that I was adapting to a new situation but they couldn't understand that.

    Ignorance like that is hard to combat. Neither one of them had any idea that 2 positions will be decided, 1 for bargaining council and 1 for union rep. Neither one had any idea what the responsibilities of _either_ position entail. And they tell me they're "going to run for something because we deserve it."

    This is going to be fun.
    I hope you didn't tell others you think they are ignorant. Not likely to earn respect or votes like that.

    Education takes time. And maybe you all have lots to learn about collective bargaining. I know I did. I still do.
  6. Visit  Chico David RN profile page
    4
    Quote from vlynnieg
    ludlow, i do not operate alone, i have the support of my team and we work well together to accomplish a lot. when we need support from our administration, we ask and we work together for solutions. if anyone from my team elects to join the union, that is their prerogative, and they are still valued members of our team. however, i and almost everyone on my particular unit, don't feel a need for unionization. i'm certain i stated very clearly several posts back that unionization is a concept that has outlasted its purpose.

    as i stated three days ago: if unions were merely a 'tool' i don't think they would be making such a gross profit in this equation. unionization is a concept that has outlived its usefulness. long-gone are the sweatshops and child labor--the abhorrent conditions-- of yesteryear. now it merely exists to perpetuate itself.
    put not your faith in laws alone to protect your rights on the job. all the protections that exist in law - child labor laws, workplace safety laws, workers compensation, overtime pay, etc - were put into place through the hard work of union members. and if unions are weakened enough, those laws will be gone so fast you would not berlieve it. our union's reps in the state capitol fight back numerous attempts to weaken them every year. the only one not under active attack is child labor protections, and even that would not last in a world without unions. and the same big money interests that fund the ani-union organizations fund efforts to attack those laws. they don't brag about it publicly - that would create too much of the wrong kind of attention - but the world they dream of is a world where no worker has any rights, where all work is done by whoever is desperate enough to bid the lowest price.
    oh - and nobody makes any "profit" in a union. they are by definition non-profit. the staff who do the work get paid fairly for their work, but even the top execs of the biggest unions are not paid on the same scale as the hedge fund managers that helped wreck our economy.
    lindarn, HM2VikingRN, RN4MERCY, and 1 other like this.
  7. Visit  HM2VikingRN profile page
    2
    Quote from vlynnieg

    Both of my parents have been screwed over by Unions at one time or another. My mother, as a nurse, despite her vast body of experience as nurse, was the newest person on her unit and therefore was consistently the first person that got her hours cut. It didn't take long at that rate for her PTO hours to be depleted to the point of there being no hope of any actual vacation with the family.

    My dad, on the other hand, suffered at the hands of the automotive Union. While he was serving his country in Viet Nam, there were others that were accrewing 'seniority'. When he came home and joined the civilian job force, every time there was a layoff at the plant he worked at, guess who got the slip?



    shalom,
    Lynnie
    Here is the flip side of your story.

    Without the contract it was quite probable that your mother would have had NO PTO to use or would have been forbidden by management to use it when they furloughed her. It is a bad deal when anyone is furloughed but the other side of a problem needs to be considered. Its a lot worse to take home a short pay envelope for workers. Far better to have the option as an individual to use your leave rather than lose the salary and the benefits entirely.

    Seniority is meant to protect longer term workers from the vagaries of managers. Your dads situation would have varied depending on when he went to work for one of the Big 3. If he had started before his entry into military service his seniority under USERRA would have accrued during his military service. If he went to work for the auto industry after his military service that time would not have been counted because he would not have been under the protection of the contract. It wasn't the union sticking it to him. He just happened to fall into a different category based on when he started working for the company.

    (Parenthetically as a federal employee I can purchase my seniority from my military service just as I did when I was a state employee.) That same contract that called for orderly layoff also gave him reemployment rights from a seniority roster. So while there were short term costs for him there were also longer term protections that did eventually lead to greater protections for him.
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Jun 6, '10
    Ludlow and lindarn like this.
  8. Visit  vlynnieg profile page
    1
    Quote from HM2VikingRN
    Here is the flip side of your story.

    Without the contract it was quite probable that your mother would have had NO PTO to use or would have been forbidden by management to use it when they furloughed her. It is a bad deal when anyone is furloughed but the other side of a problem needs to be considered. Its a lot worse to take home a short pay envelope for workers. Far better to have the option as an individual to use your leave rather than lose the salary and the benefits entirely.

    Seniority is meant to protect longer term workers from the vagaries of managers. Your dads situation would have varied dependig on whe he wet to work for one of the Big 3. If he had started before his entry into military service his seniority under USERRA would have accrued during his military service. If he went to work for the auto industry after his military service that time would not have been counted because he would not have been under the protection of the contract. It wasn't the union sticking it to him. He just happened to fall into a different category based on when he started working for the company.

    (Parenthetically as a federal employee I can purchase my seniority from my military service just as I did when I was a state employee.) That same contract that called for orderly layoff also gave him reemployment rights from a seniority roster. So while there were short term costs for him there were also longer term protections that did eventually lead to greater protections for him.

    Thats the rub the tradeoff for longer term protections sometimes results in shorter term pains.
    On my unit, if there has to be cancellations, it is rotated fairly and no one bears the burden solely. And, we can use out PTO to cover it, but as it is distributed fairly, everyone still has PTO to actually use for well-deserved vacation time if they so choose. It was also the way they did things at the hospital I worked at back home as well, so I'm reasonably convinced it is the norm, not the exception. It would be wrong for the union to change that to the detriment of anyone with the least amount of time in with us.

    As for my dad, he served almost straight out of high school, so it's not likely he would have had any opportunity to accrew any seniority prior to being called up to serve. And he got called back to work a few times, usually right after getting an interim job--only to be laid off again within a few weeks. Did they rotate the layoffs evenly among the employees there? Not likely! I guess we can thank the union for making things a lot better for our family. He finally had had enough, STAYED laid off, went back to school on his GI Bill, got his Bachelor's in 2.5 yrs going year-round and taking insane course loads (managing a 3.8 gpa, no less)got his CPA and NEVER LOOKED BACK. So, if you count 'disgusting and ******* off someone to the point of them being willing to suffer anything to be as far removed from it as possible' as the union doing something for him, then I guess my family owes them a lot.
    lindarn likes this.
  9. Visit  Chico David RN profile page
    7
    Quote from vlynnieg
    On my unit, if there has to be cancellations, it is rotated fairly and no one bears the burden solely. And, we can use out PTO to cover it, but as it is distributed fairly, everyone still has PTO to actually use for well-deserved vacation time if they so choose. It was also the way they did things at the hospital I worked at back home as well, so I'm reasonably convinced it is the norm, not the exception. It would be wrong for the union to change that to the detriment of anyone with the least amount of time in with us.

    As for my dad, he served almost straight out of high school, so it's not likely he would have had any opportunity to accrew any seniority prior to being called up to serve. And he got called back to work a few times, usually right after getting an interim job--only to be laid off again within a few weeks. Did they rotate the layoffs evenly among the employees there? Not likely! I guess we can thank the union for making things a lot better for our family. He finally had had enough, STAYED laid off, went back to school on his GI Bill, got his Bachelor's in 2.5 yrs going year-round and taking insane course loads (managing a 3.8 gpa, no less)got his CPA and NEVER LOOKED BACK. So, if you count 'disgusting and ******* off someone to the point of them being willing to suffer anything to be as far removed from it as possible' as the union doing something for him, then I guess my family owes them a lot.
    Call offs are done by rotation under my union contract, which is pretty common, but not always the case under contracts with my union. The point being that it's very different at different hospitals - "the union" doesn't choose one way to do it, the nurses at a particular hospital elect their bargaining representatives who choose the way they want to do it at that hospital. Representative democracy, much like the United States. Some of our contracts 9mostly older ones) are very seniority heavy, others are not. All according to the preference of the members at each facility. And we often build in variability even within a facility. The contract where I work has a plan for vacation scheduling, but specifies that any unit that wants to use a different plan can do so if a majority of the nurses and the manager of that unit agree to. Unions have nothing to gain by forcing everyone into a single mold, so the smart ones don't.
    Ludlow, RN4MERCY, nicurn001, and 4 others like this.
  10. Visit  HM2VikingRN profile page
    6
    It wasn't the union sticking it to him. He just happened to fall into a different category based on when he started working for the company.
    One other thought...Hiring and firing is a management decision/right.....It makes little sense to blame the union contract for staffing decisions made by managers. The contract provided for orderly recall from layoff based on seniority which was done IAW the contract. (one of the goals of negotiations is to mitigate damages to employees in the case of involuntary layoff.)

    As a long term state employee I volunteered for layoff during a RIF after I landed my first nursing job with the goal of protecting a younger employees job. AFSCME to this day is still trying to work with state government management to encourage incentives that will allow older employees to retire early with the goal of saving younger employees jobs.

    (I went through a serial bullying by a manager. The union saved my job, and facilitated a transfer which ultimately allowed me to become a nurse with a 30% pay increase.)

    All things being equal throughout my work life I have always been better off with the protection of a contract. (And my family by extension.)
    Ludlow, lindarn, RN4MERCY, and 3 others like this.
  11. Visit  txdude35 profile page
    3
    Quote from herring_RN
    I hope you didn't tell others you think they are ignorant. Not likely to earn respect or votes like that.

    Education takes time. And maybe you all have lots to learn about collective bargaining. I know I did. I still do.
    No, I didn't. One of them and I have a profound and mutual dislike of each other, and have had for some time now. I can put my personal feelings aside and work with her though, because business is business.

    I have _everything_ to learn about collective bargaining. I'm an absolute neophyte and freely admit it. I'm reading, researching, and talking to people with experience though in order to have some sense of where this is going to go.
    lindarn, laborer, and herring_RN like this.
  12. Visit  Leyla~ profile page
    0
    I apologize if this has already been mentioned, I only checked the last few pages.

    I was checking the National Right To Work website just now, looking for those sample union resignation letters (I'm resending them certified mail this time so I won't have any legal issues when I cross the picket lines in MN) and came across the following:

    Houston, TX (June 03, 2010) - The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) has issued a formal complaint against the California Nurses Association (CNA) union and Tenet Healthcare Corporation (THC) for illegally negotiating contractual provisions before the union received majority support from Tenet employees. The complaint was prompted by unfair labor practice charges filed by several nurses at the Cypress Fairbanks Medical Center with the help of National Right to Work Foundation attorneys.

    Full article here: Federal Labor Board to Prosecute Hospital Union for Illegal Bargaining in Secret Agreement | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation
  13. Visit  vlynnieg profile page
    0
    We supposedly were nominating last week for potential representatives, yet only 2-3 people on our unit had been told of this. Funnier, yet, is that two of the people supposedly nominated were clueless about this, as well! I called the regional office for NNOC and was informed that our assigned organizer had supposedly tried to talk to me about it and I supposedly refused to talk to her about it. The only time I've so much as laid eyes on her since the facility election was once in passing as I was en route to the ER to pick up a patient. She didn't even so much as greet me, much less attempt to talk to me about anything, this included! Needlessto say, I advised the peorson on the phone that if they were told this, they were told a blatant lie, that no such attempt at conversation was ever made. I have, however, discovered their mantra. There are perhaps two phrases that they rely upon heavily when they don't have any other defense.
  14. Visit  Bortaz, RN profile page
    0
    Quote from vlynnieg
    We supposedly were nominating last week for potential representatives, yet only 2-3 people on our unit had been told of this. Funnier, yet, is that two of the people supposedly nominated were clueless about this, as well! I called the regional office for NNOC and was informed that our assigned organizer had supposedly tried to talk to me about it and I supposedly refused to talk to her about it. The only time I've so much as laid eyes on her since the facility election was once in passing as I was en route to the ER to pick up a patient. She didn't even so much as greet me, much less attempt to talk to me about anything, this included! Needlessto say, I advised the peorson on the phone that if they were told this, they were told a blatant lie, that no such attempt at conversation was ever made. I have, however, discovered their mantra. There are perhaps two phrases that they rely upon heavily when they don't have any other defense.
    A couple of the nurses on my unit (including a charge) were upset to find their names on the "example form" showing them as nominees for the representation committee. They'd not been asked, and while they were just examples, at a passing glance an uninformed person could easily think they'd nominated themselves for consideration. The thing was put up by one of those chicks from NNOC. Again, it was just an "example", but it was formatted in such a way that you'd not know that unless you read the form in depth. I'd have been POd if I'd been put on there.


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