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When things go wrong



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No. 10
from NRSKarenRN
Old Mar 21, 2009, 11:34 PM

Default Re: When things go wrong
Moderators do not have to be experts in their field but have a passion for helping people find the info they want. More info on role here:
The Roles of the Moderator in Scholarly Discussion Groups (SDGs)
How do you handle more than one level of moderator responsibilities?


OP was asking for info When things go wrong... missed your expert response to the question asked
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No. 11
from alterego33
Old Mar 22, 2009, 12:20 AM

Default Re: When things go wrong
Originally Posted by 4amcoffee View Post
So, I am working on setting up some shadowing experiences with a CRNA (or a few of them), but wanted to see if any of you out there can answer a few questions I have. First, I would imagine that the OR is typically a very controlled environment. But, how often does something go wrong, and what does that situation typically look like? What is the anesthetist's role in these situations? I guess I'm looking for some stories. Would anyone like to share? Thanks.
As an expert in anesthesia, I will offer a few answers. First, it depends on what goes wrong and who has control of the situation. There are times when there is massive hemorrhage at the surgical site. The surgeons try to control it surgically, the CRNA pumps in blood and fluid, monitors vital signs and makes necessary adjustments in the anesthetic agents to help stabilize the patient. Then there could be a fire in a surgical site that was prepped with alcohol and the cautery used. All of the members of the team would put out the fire, maintain oxygenation of the patient, make a decision about to proceed with the surgery. Then there is fetal distress and the need for a stat c-section where everyone in the team has a role to save the baby and the mother.

All of this points to the incredible team that is present in every operating room. We all have our role and the patient depends on us to know what we are doing and then do it.

What we do as CRNAs is make second to second decisions, that include a very quick assessment of the situation and being able to multitask and to keep focused and calm. That is why (1) you have to be very bright to qualify for anesthesia school--good grades, lots of critical care experience, (2) we get paid well and (3) anesthesia is not for everyone.

A recent example, last week I had a leak in my anesthesia system and while I could ventilate the patient, there was clearly something wrong. within 30 seconds I had to make a quick check of the anesthesia machine, connections, gases, ventilator, and tubings. When they were all normal, I checked the nasal endotracheal tube and determined the leak was there. I had to extubate the patient and reintubate without a muscle relaxant while trying not to contaminate the surgical field. Leak solved, patient did fine and all went well. It doesn't sound like a big deal...but I had to be an biomed engineer, a respiratory physiologist, make quick observations, identify and solve the problem.

I hope these examples helped answer your questions.

AE
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No. 12
from c0ntagion
Old Mar 22, 2009, 05:45 PM

Default Re: When things go wrong
Originally Posted by alterego33 View Post
Not every patient gets amnesia from versed. It should not be relied upon as an amnesic. I know, because I have had versed a number of times and remember everything.
Yeah, the CRNA gave me 3 of Versed prior to my ankle surgery, and I definitely remember it. I know that's not a large dose by any means, but I remember getting my nerve block like it was yesterday. That being said, once I got my propofol, it was all over
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No. 13
from jdpete
Old Mar 22, 2009, 07:35 PM

Default Re: When things go wrong
I wouldnt classify a pt "moving" on incision a complication---have to agree here staff, people posting here should have more knowledge about the subject, but I guess that is where others have to speak up---
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No. 14
from foraneman
Old Mar 24, 2009, 04:35 AM

Default Re: When things go wrong
Originally Posted by JanineD23 View Post
I'm not an OR nurse but I did a week in the OR as part of my Med-Surg rotation last year. I watched a total of eight surgeries and only two had any complications (though they weren't codes). Both were caused by the patients lack of sedation during the start of the procedure (knee replacements). The patients both tried to get off the table during the opening cuts and in the first replacement the patient was able to feel pain the entire procedure (which was evident when her vitals spiked during every single cut).

I was actually really concerned when the anesthesiologist told me not to worry because the Versed he pushed would make sure they didn't remember a thing.

Not sure if this is what you were looking for, but hopefully it gives you a vague idea. I had classmates that were in the OR as well and none of them witnessed anything like this with any other anesthesiologist nor did they see any problems.
ONLY 2 out of 8 is not ONLY. It is an extraordinarily high complication rate. And the previous post is correct. Movement on incision is not a complication. Trying to get of the table is poor anesthesia by a questionable provider.....unless these are the first and last times it ever happens in his room.

Serious unexpected complications are rare, but they by definition can become very labor intensive for a CRNA. Anesthesia is responsible for the medical care of the patient while in the OR and the medical treatment of all complications. Obviously the surgical treatment of complications is the responsibility of a surgeon.
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No. 15
from MP5PDW
Old Mar 24, 2009, 08:15 AM

Default Re: When things go wrong
The plural of anecdote does not equal data.


Now THAT is funny. I am soo going to use that on a student.
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