DO (school) in anesthesiology or CRNA school - page 5

I am a new member. Discovered you guys about a year and a half ago and tap in every now and then and read discussions. Great site! Great discussions. I have a question I am hoping you can help me... Read More

  1. by   suzanne4
    I know of no one that is "self-insured" as you call it, at least as a CRNA. Car insurance is quite a different thing. $6000-$9000 is about the average cost right now, again depending on the state that you are in, etc. That is the price for now, five years from now could be a completely different story. Chances are you will be paying most of your own malpractice five years from now, if things continue to go as they are. No guarantee but you need to be aware that you may have these costs when you finish school. Anesthesia should be something that you really want to do, not because of the monetary reward. Something for all of you to think about!!!
    :hatparty:
  2. by   Roland
    Suzanne, if insurance costs increase it is likely that CRNA salaries will also increase, at least partially to offset the rise in costs. In addition, it is likely that CRNA's will remain either the most lucrative or just about the most lucrative nursing positions. To me "being in it for the money" is as much of a moral issue as it is my motivation. I believe that in todays America people are relunctant to be in things "for the money" and I fear this represents the success of the left in "demonizing" the concept of being motivated by monetary reward. Thus, I fear we are sliding towards the type of "socialist democracy" exemplified by Spain and their capitulation to terrorism. Thus, even if I didn't care about "money" for my own reasons (to pursue my dreams) I would make it a central issue out of ethical considerations.
  3. by   RNBEAUTY2003
    Quote from zinnia27
    In my experience I do not recall ever seeing a DO anesthesiologist. You would be more marketable if you completed crna school or med school. Residency for anesthesia is 1 year of general internship and then you do 4 years of anesthesia. Good luck.

    Zinna,
    I'm a little confused with your comment" more marketable going to crna/med school". I'm not sure if you really know what DO's are. They are Board certified physicians( and have to take extra classes than MD track programs-osteopathic medicine section in addition to all other medical school routine classes). I work in a very large teaching hosptial and work with many competent and well respected DO's. ( my boyfriend of 2 years is one that I respect greatly).DO's in anything from Family Practice to Neurosurgery, as well as Anesthesiology.
  4. by   RNBEAUTY2003
    Quote from Mantibob
    Is residency really that long for DO??

    Mantibob,
    If my boyfriend read some of these threads, he would flip!

    "Is residency really that long for a DO?"

    Well , of course it is. It's everything and more for a MD program. Nothing is different- just the title.
  5. by   suzanne4
    Roland, You haven't completed nursing school yet. You probably haven't even been in an OR. How do you know that anesthesia is something that you are going to want to do? You should be in nursing because it is something that you absolutely love to do, not because of the money. Look at the changes in physician salaries over the last ten years or so. For many of them their salaries have actually gone down. Remember that most salaries are third party paid by insurance companies. The physicians that are actually doing the best are the plastic surgeons and cosmentic dermatologists because they are paid in cash (or credit card) by their patient before the procedure. I have been in Health Care for over thirty years so I am making these statements with experience, not hypothetically.

    Just some things for you to seriously think about..................you may actually find an area that you like better. Also take into acoount, that salaries don't necessarily go up because insurance rates have gone up. Look at OB/Gyn - Neurosurgery- or even the MDAs in anesthesia. Their actual take home pay has probably even decreased due to rising costs.
  6. by   Roland
    If CRNA's made substancially less than a different nursing specialty in the future, I wouldn't hesitate to switch in the event that doing so was feasible. However, with the best available evidence that I have at my disposal CRNA's seem to be the most lucrative (hence the primary reason along with health insurance that we abandoned our six figure income to go into nursing). The question is not whether or not my wife or I will "love" being a CRNA. Rather, the primary issue concerns IF we can be good enough to get into CRNA school, graduate, and then "hold our own" against other, driven, gifted professionals. "Loving" your job is a luxery, and if it turns out that we love the job then that's truely a blessing. However, I believe this whole notion of "loving your work" is a modern notion grounded in "baby boomer", touchy "feel good" life perspectives.

    Eighty percent of the world's population works desperately hard just to LIVE at jobs that would leave the average American shocked in horror after a couple of days. Heck, in Thailand there are girls that willingly work as prostitutes and subject themselves to a high risk of contracting HIV and other diseases to provide a measure of support to their families. I wonder if they "love" their jobs? If you really want to get philisophical about the whole issue even JESUS didn't relish his "job" as a sacrafice for humanity's sin (hence his prayer to his father to lift this cup, if it was his will). George Washington is often said to have abhorred the idea of being President. Even Donald Rumsfield has stated that he was probably much "happier" being a multi-millionare in private life than dealing with the stress of being the Secretary of Defense. Corporations don't go around asking themselves what "business" they would most enjoy pursuing. Instead, they focus on the areas where they might be the most PROFITABLE given their unique circumtances, and comparative advantages. When I sometimes work as a CNA at a long term care facility, I can truly say that I ABHOR many aspects of the job. Where is the joy in having to care for twenty residents in "assembly line" like fashion? THEN, I realize that in many instances I am able to "reach" these people in ways others often don't. In addition, I see the beauty in being able to serve others at a job that many wouldn't consider. Now if I can find the beauty in wiping fifty BM's a shift, and emptying ten plus colostomy bags for twelve dollars per hour isn't it probable that I could find some small fufillment in helping people under anesthesia for fifty dollars per hour?

    Not being motivated by money can even be considered destructive to others. Consider, what would happen if there were enough nurses who just "loved helping people", and had other means of partial or complete financial support (such as husbands who worked at other jobs) such that they were willing to work for ten dollars per hour. If a sufficent percentage of the nursing workforce felt this way average wages would stagnate, and then start to decline. This would of course really hurt thoses nurses who DID depend upon the profession for their financial well being (say the single mother nurses who were the only bread winners). Some might even argue that the whole notion of promoting the concept of "doing what you love" is little more than a thinly veiled ploy by major coorporate interests to reduce demands for higher wages and benefits.

    As I stated above the concept of "loving" your work would have been a concept that bordered on moral vice even to my grandparents who suffered through the depression. My own father preached to me as a child that I should understand that work isn't supposed to be fun because if it was they could get by with volunteers! I say focus instead on something that you believe that you CAN DO, and not absolutely hate. By all accounts being a CRNA is no worse than most other areas of advanced practice nursing, and on average pays considerably more. IF becoming a CRNA enables me to provide for my family, live on Oahu, Fiji, or Bora Bora, surf, and someday own a boat I will LOVE the job for what it has done for my family! To use a different analogy there are many people who have had successful marriages despite not being especially attracted to one another (this one hits close to home). Presumably, the relationship offers SOME benefit which may range from shared goals, shared experiences or other elements that keep the relationship going. In the same way there are many examples of people not particularly liking their jobs, but being considered GOOD at the job anyway. My mother complained nearly every day of her life how much she hated being a first grade teacher (she would even sometimes say that she couldn't stand coming home to me after being with kids all day). However, she was considered one of the best (at least in these parts) and singlehandedly started, and financed before school breakfast programs and field trips to summer camp (which was actually where we camped in the summer) for her kids. We can't all be Rush Limbaugh who claims that he was "born" to do the job that he does (then again if doing what you love brings such intrinsic content then how does he explain his Oxycodone addiction?)
    Last edit by Roland on Mar 17, '04
  7. by   msummar_smc
    Quote from Roland
    We can't all be Rush Limbaugh who claims that he was "born" to do the job that he does (then again if doing what you love brings such intrinsic content then how does he explain his Oxycodone addiction?)
    Sorry to go off on a tangent here, but Rush Limbaugh didn't abuse Oxycodone because he was unhappy with his job. Rush became addicted to Oxycodone when it was originally perscribed to him for a back problem he developed. Oxycodone is highly addictive and addiction is a disease. Sorry about hijacking the thread ... now back to the discussion.

    I see the desire to become a CRNA kind of like you. I see a job that I will like a lot, if not love (I am not a CRNA yet). However, it is not my first love. My first love would be playing professional baseball. So you can see, sometimes it is not in the cards to always work at the job you would like above any other. But being a CRNA will afford the ability to help others, contribute to society, and give my family to security and 'fun' things in life that I dream about.
  8. by   sway
    As much as I can't stand the hypocracy of Rush Limbaugh, I'll have to agree with Roland et. al. about the reasons for going in to a profession. I initially went in to nursing because it was one of the few professions that was compatible with my likes, dislikes and lifestyle. It allows ample time off, is very flexible, pays relatively well, is lightly active (I'm not glued to a chair), offers security and is based in science. When I started my BSN 6 years ago, how was I to know if I would "love" it or not? In fact, that was actually a pretty uncertain and scary time for just this reason. Since working for the past year, I have grown to really really like what I do. Do I love it...not quite but maybe someday. Love takes time.

    At the same time, I think you guys have to realize that there ARE a lucky few out there who find jobs (or activities) that the truly do love. For me, my true love is rock climbing and mountaineering. I did that as a job (mountain guide) for 10 years before nursing, but I eventually got burned out. I am much happier now, having my true love seperated from my work, and not tarnished by money and obligation.

    If you think that people who love their job are communists trying to destroy our homeland, I'd double check your oxycontin dosage and maybe head to Betty Ford for some detox because that's just plain crazy.

    sway
  9. by   Mantibob
    Thanks for getting back to me on my question about Thailand. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Do you think I could "travel nurse" to the states - say six months a year - and be able to live the remaining 6 months on the income? Are there areas in Thailand with nice beaches? (I am an "ocean" kinda guy).

    Thanks again


    Quote from suzanne4
    I speak Spanish but much prefer living over here versus Mexico.
    1. Cost of lving is actually cheap compared to many other places but not why I chose it over here. I have a three bedroom penthouse, all hardwood or marble floors, separate breakfast room, 5 bathrooms, two large terraces plus a balcony, about 240 square meters, for approximately $1500 per month INCLUDING all utilities. (telephone, air cond., water,garbage, etc) Have a swimming pool on the 6th floor of my building and a gym on the 6th floor.
    2. In terms of working as a nurse in a hospital, forget it. You would have to take a licensing exam over here and it is only given in Thai. The salaries here are quite low, in comparison to the US for nurses, approx $350-400 per month. But they get their housing paid for and meals at the hospital for free.
    3. I actually own and operate a school over here.
    4. Cost of food is very cheap. 2 egg omelette on the street (with tomatoes,onions, green onion, etc. for about 15 baht, which translates to about $0.35. A whole grilled fish for about $0.25 to $0.75 depending on the type of fish. You can purchase 30 eggs here for about $1.50. Still not eating chicken at the moment because of the bird flu problem, though eggs are okay. I make my puppies pork chops every day, 2 nice size ones for about $0.60. Vegetables are extremely cheap. Fruits too. And right form the farm overnight, not on a boat for a few weeks.
    5. I have had an apt in my same building for about 5 years, love the service there, plus I can see my terrace form my office, so it works out better for me right now instead of purchasing. You can rent a large one bedroom in my building for about $600, about 1000 square feet.

    Hope that this helps. Feel free to send me a PM or an e-mail to
    suzanne@RNSpecifics.com
    :hatparty:
    p.s. After living over here, don't think that I could ever live back in the US. I have a housekeeper 6 mornings per week, etc.)
  10. by   suzanne4
    There are spectacular beaches and dive sites all over. That is how I first started coming over here 17 years ago. Yes, you could easily live six months in the US and the rest over here. If you originate your flights from here, you can get a flight for under $600 round-trip, so you could even work for two to three months, come here for two months, etc.

    Hope that this helps. If you want check out Ko Chang, Ko Samui, the area around Hua Hin (still on the mainland), just to name a few nice areas. Ko in Thai means island. So if you see Ko or Koh in front of the name it means island.
  11. by   Mantibob
    Cool! I will check them out. THANKS



    Quote from suzanne4
    There are spectacular beaches and dive sites all over. That is how I first started coming over here 17 years ago. Yes, you could easily live six months in the US and the rest over here. If you originate your flights from here, you can get a flight for under $600 round-trip, so you could even work for two to three months, come here for two months, etc.

    Hope that this helps. If you want check out Ko Chang, Ko Samui, the area around Hua Hin (still on the mainland), just to name a few nice areas. Ko in Thai means island. So if you see Ko or Koh in front of the name it means island.
  12. by   Roland
    How would Thailand compare verses Oahu with regard to scenary and beaches (read SURFING). I was stationed on Oahu in the Navy and absolutely love the place (it's very expensive, but we have simple tastes in terms of accomodations, transportation ect). My wife on the other hand dreams of one day living part of the year in Fiji, or maybe Bora Bora have you visited the South Pacific for a comparison?
  13. by   suzanne4
    Bora Bora is extremely expensive, such as $500 and up for hotel room per night. Have been there several times including Moorea. Nice to visit but definitely could not live there. Prices are outrageous for everything because it is all shipped in, and mostly from Australia. So, think of shipping from US to Australia, then back to Moorea and beyond by ship.

    Thailand is gorgeous, spectacular diving, not sure about surfing. But remember that your nursing license from the US will do you no good over here.
    We don't have any typhoons here, or destructive winds, at least in the Bangkok area. Warm, sunny weather year round and never a chance of snow.

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