All CRNAs need to READ this

[janecristensen]

this is in response to 'bioncokie's' post under 'Doctor's Frustrations' ,

Let me first say that I think being a crna is a great job. I've been doing it for 5 years now, working in the anesthesia care team model. I work with MDAs daily and I'm glad that they are there. Although some of your comments may be seen as offensive by some of my fellow crnas, you DO have some valid comments. That's what this forum is about. Talking about issues, educating everyone on the experience of crna's and mda's.

It's true that we are NOT as smart as MDs. It's true that we DON'T know the 'medical knowledge' that you do. You're right about our board exams. We aren't nearly tested on our knowledge to the extent physicians are. My crna board exam was only like 80 questions and I had around 3 hours to complete it. I understand your board exams (USMLEs) and Anesthesia boards are way more difficult and time-pressured. You're tested not only on paper, but also in clinical scenarios (like you said in Step 2) and during anesthesia oral boards. It must be very difficult.

I did not feel pressured during either of my board exams (nursing school and anes). We had plenty of time to answer questions. But YOU have to make decisions quickly and those exams prepare you for that. Maybe we should have to take more tests, have more questions, and be 'pressured' by having less time. If 'we' wan't to sit here and try to say we 'do the same things, know the same things' as MDAs do, then we should have to prove it. I calculated all my board exams together. My NCLEX was around 75 questions.. and my CRNA National Cert. Exam (boards) was like 70-100 questions (dont recall exact number). So, I was essentially asked to answer 175 questions to prove myself, not only as a nurse, but also as a CRNA. 175 questions for my entire career. Once I stepped back from this and looked at it.. I was really shocked. MDAs are tested on a completely different level. On behalf of all crnas, i feel we should be tested harder. Maybe we should take the board exam for MDAs and they should take our Nat.Cert.Exam. I think that would answer alot of questions brought up in this forum. But, unfortunately I don't think that would be the best idea.

I have two close friends who went to medical school. I had the unpleasant priviledge to see some of their study materials for their board exams. It really does blow my mind.. how much they had to learn. The shear amount of information that they learn.. it's in a different league. Then they have to show proficiency on numerous USMLEs and Anes boards. There is no way I could learn all that information and answer those board style questions, especially in the short amount of time they have for each question. I graduated number 2 in my CRNA class of 36 students, and I can sure tell you that my classmates would have little or no chance at passing those exams. But that's why I didn't go to medical school. I know my limitations. That's not to say nurses aren't intelligent. But doctors are in a different league, whether you like it or not. They're essentially the top tier students that our nation's universities pump out. That's why society rightfully holds them to a different standard. The're the brightest minds our nation produces. My friend in medschool got his BS degree in chemistry. He graduated summa cum laude. I don't know one nurse who could sit through a physical chemistry/ quantum physics course and pull an 'A'. let alone pull an 'A' in all chemistry courses.

I also found out that 4 of the ICU docs here at my hospital were (are) Anesthesiologist. I asked them how they got where they were. They basically do an extra year in residency in the ICU. They then are qualified to treat patients in the ICU, and in the case here.. our ICU director is an Anesthesiologist. They said there are many MDAs that don't even do the extra year of training but can moonlight in ICUs on the side...

I think I speak for all crnas when I say.. there is no way I could step foot in the ICU, take complete control of treating the sickest and most critical patients in the hospital, and feel like I was doing something right. (even with 12 months of ICU experience after crna residency) I spent 4 years as an ICU nurse. When things went bad, I didn't look to my left and right.. I looked to the phone. I paged the doctor !!

I don't know why crnas get so upset with this issue. Maybe they don't know exactly what MDAs go through, how much they know, the ICU stuff, etc. Maybe crnas don't know how much they really don't know. Well I do. But I'm proud of what I do. We ARE NOT the same as them. We should be proud of who we are. What makes us different makes us unique!! We are UNIQUE. We are SPECIAL !! Rejoice in the fact that we're special !! I love being a crna.

[nurseman78, BSN, RN, NP]

Egos, egos, egos...

I think those who feel the need to pit MDA's and CRNA's against each other are lacking something. The same with RN's who think they're smarter or better than doctors, and vice versa. Honestly, did you put all this time, work and money to get into a field just so you could put someone in their place, or prove a point?

I was facing a choice between going into nursing and becoming a doctor. I chose nursing. Why? Well, there are a lot of reasons. I wanted to begin working quickly, and the idea that I could be paid well and continue getting more certifications and education while I'm making decent money was intriguing to me.

Did I choose the path of least resistance? I was told I was competitive for med school, and could definitely get in. But I intend to become a CRNA instead. I don't think becoming a CRNA is a walk in the park. Yes, the courses and exams an MDA has to take are probably more challenging. But so what?

I chose to go into health care because I love learning and I love helping people, and I also wanted to make a good living. My goal is to provide the best care that I possibly can, to lift my teammates and co-workers, and do something I love. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I just want a job that fulfills me both intellectually and in regards to my service to others.

Here's something to think about... if you're constantly feeling inadequate because you're not a doctor, why didn't you become one? And here's another thing... I've heard of doctors getting far worse grades than some nurses. The point is, it's not the role one plays, but how one plays it.

You can drive yourself crazy trying to outdo everyone. And there will always be someone who will "top" you. The point is, it doesn't matter. I firmly believe that if you're in these jobs to feed your ego, you are missing the point. One needs to be able to find joy in one's own experiences and successes, and not in the acceptance of others.

[chgoreid]

You can drive yourself crazy trying to outdo everyone. And there will always be someone who will "top" you. The point is, it doesn't matter. I firmly believe that if you're in these jobs to feed your ego, you are missing the point. One needs to be able to find joy in one's own experiences and successes, and not in the acceptance of others.

Very well said.

[Zero1979]

CRNA's and Ologists are for people who can't hack being an ICU nurse.

Just kidding!! I'm starting my own CRNA program in the Fall.

I see a lot of professional pride coming from this board. Becoming a CRNA is no easy task, from what I hear. And I have little doubt that making it through med school a walk in the park either, based on what I watched my sister go through. Speaking as a nurse with a sibling who is a physician, I find myself seeing both sides of the story. But the truth of the situation is that "skill" or "smarts" or whatever you want to say rest with the individual. Sometimes I'm "smarter" than Cardiovascular surgeons when it comes to guessing what my patient needs, and sometimes I'm not. I hear from all my scrub tech friends (I used to be one of them, too) that there isn't a difference at all between the CRNA's and the MDAs. Some are good, some are lousy, regardless of job title.

Having said that, as far as doctors being rude, well, no matter how high and mighty my sister acts, it always falls to me to remind her that of all of us kids, she was the only one who had worms.

[gj47479]

I'm a nursing STUDENT and I recently had to tell an MD what essential hypertension meant!!

[sleepy26]

actually, you do not speak for all nurses.

I have taken a year of physics, inorganic, organic and a semester of biochem. I have As in all of my chemistry courses. The only thing between me and med school is ONE exam.

I chose the CRNA route - it has nothing to do with not being able to get into medical school. I do not wish to diagnose and treat disease - I only want to do anesthesia. That is the route i have chosen.