The University of Alberta?

CodeteamB · Mar 3, 2013

Ok, one more reply here. Again I will disclaim since I graduated years ago so I'm not up on exactly how the program works nowadays. But my experience was different and I think in all fairness we can't throw the whole program/faculty under the bus because some people didn't enjoy or succeed in this program. I personally worked two part time jobs to pay for school, maintained a great relationship with the man I am now married to, spent time with family and friends (many of whom I met in the program) and graduated from the program with distinction. I worked really hard, and I was overwhelmed at times but just like everything in life you gotta take the good with the bad. I enjoyed Nursing school, we all rolled our eyes and b-d about the bad things in the program (which have been mentioned here) but we made it through and I think the implication that everyone would be a substandard nurse after going through this program is insulting to me and to the many fine nurses I know who also graduated from it.

You will get out of school what you put into it, it's not a cake walk wherever you choose to go.

Ok just read that and it sounds kinda sanctimonious but I'm going to leave it.... Not trying to belittle anyone, just want to show another perspective here... It is not always easy to uproot and move to another city, nor is it practical for some to spend another two years in school past the time they really NEED to be there... So I want to ensure that people who are interested in the ADP are aware it doesn't have to suck and it's not going to make you a bad nurse.

Pink Tulip · Mar 6, 2013

Is the UofA ADP really that bad? I'm originally from Ontario, and so I've also applied to Western and UfT's ADPs. I applied to Alberta as a back-up in case I didn't get into Ontario as I have family in both provinces, and it seemed a lot easier to get into UofA (which I guess is true since I've already got Early Acceptance:shy:). I actually wanted to go to Alberta BECAUSE of the CBL learning style, as it's similar to McMaster's PBL style. I learn a lot from doing things myself, and the thoughts of being in many seminars and not on the floor is very worrying for me as I learn nothing from seminars about my profession. I attend seminars now and I still don't see the point of them and often just daze off into dreamland until it's time to learn something practical. I wish I had known this about the UofA program before I spent all that application/transcript money. :arghh:

CodeteamB · Mar 6, 2013

When I was in the program seminar was 4 hours a week and clinical was 16 hours. You are not losing out on clinical hours in favour of seminar, rather you are losing out on lecture hours (I think it was 2 hours/week, usually guest speakers)

It is a different teaching method. Instead of going to class and getting a lecture on, say, diabetes you will, with your seminar group, get a scenario about a family affected by both type one and type two diabetes. Then, the 8 of you will decide "what do we want to know about diabetes?" One person may do the pathophysiology, one the pharmacology, one pt education on lifestyles, one may do a nursing care model etc. then you come back together and share your research.

I think what people really don't like about this program is you can feel a bit anxious about whether you are learning the right things. I often heard the complaint "how can the make a standard exam for us! We're all learning different things." If you are very exam focused and used to lecture style delivery it will be a really big adjustment. That being said, it sounds like you like PBL.... And the program is based on the PBL at McMaster, so if PBL Works for you, you should have a leg up on this program. Also, only the nursing theory courses are CBL. A&P, patho, pharm, MMI, etc are traditional lecture based courses.

In addition to your clinical hours you will spend a lot of time doing patient research, and will learn a lot from this as well. My patient research was generally 6-8 pages for each patient.

It isn't an easy program but I don't think it should be, nursing isn't an easy career. Believe me, your employers, clinical educators and colleagues will expect you to know your stuff and be able to figure things out on the fly. As far as psychomotor skills we didn't start IVs until second year and got very few opportunities to practice until preceptorship. I think this makes a lot of students feel unprepared, but consider, you will have an entire career to develop these types of skills.

I think the biggest shortfall of the program is time management. The maximum number of patients we took in clinical was 3. We were never really forced into the reality of 4-5 med surg patients until preceptorship. My first job was 5-6 patients and 8 on nights.

So there you go, MHO on the program. It's not that bad.

helterskelter22 · Mar 6, 2013

CodeteamB, to be honest I think you're in outlier in terms of success within the program. I've never heard anyone talk in such positive light about it. My biggest gripe with the program inst CBL it's just the mass scale disorganization and lack of communication. In terms of preparedness I think this program does a great disservice to those of us who have paid thousands of dollars and invested countless hours to attend.

Like others have said if you're willing to endure two years of strife and grief then go for it. At the end we all come out as RN's but what the point of that if your foundational knowledge is so weak that you're constantly in worry about harming a patient?

CodeteamB · Mar 6, 2013

CodeteamB, to be honest I think you're in outlier in terms of success within the program. I've never heard anyone talk in such positive light about it. My biggest gripe with the program inst CBL it's just the mass scale disorganization and lack of communication. In terms of preparedness I think this program does a great disservice to those of us who have paid thousands of dollars and invested countless hours to attend.
Like others have said if you're willing to endure two years of strife and grief then go for it. At the end we all come out as RN's but what the point of that if your foundational knowledge is so weak that you're constantly in worry about harming a patient?

Perhaps... But give yourself a couple years working and see, you may surprise yourself. What knowledge do you feel you are lacking? A lot of nursing is learned on the job, and if you have the motivation and the resources to continue your learning you will be ok. I think that the worry you feel indicates that you know that you don't know everything, and that's a good thing in a new grad! Confidence and expertise come with experience, they are not learned in the classroom or even in clinical.

( this post not to talk up u of a, rather hoping to give you a little hope. Good luck!)

Pink Tulip · Mar 6, 2013

Now see this part of CBL is what would worry me: the PBL at McMaster works with every person in the group researching EVERYTHING and then discussing and sharing at seminar. So if you were weak in one area or missed something, someone else would pick it up. I would think it would be hard to learn everything if you only have to research a portion of the problem. You are then relying on other colleagues to fill in those gaps in appropriate detail and learn it on the spot then instead of having time to process it from the research.

CodeteamB · Mar 6, 2013

Now see this part of CBL is what would worry me: the PBL at McMaster works with every person in the group researching EVERYTHING and then discussing and sharing at seminar. So if you were weak in one area or missed something someone else would pick it up. I would think it would be hard to learn everything if you only have to research a portion of the problem. You are then relying on other colleagues to fill in those gaps in appropriate detail and learn it on the spot then instead of having time to process it from the research.[/quote']
Yup. You hit the nail on the head. To succeed in this program I think you do need to research everything, and that is overwhelming for some students. The most successful seminar I had was in our final year when we had all found our groove. We would complete our research handouts and email them to our classmates by 8 PM the day before seminar and the expectation was that you would read everyone's research before seminar. Then we would have a discussion on each topic. Believe me, if I was assigned Watson's nursing model for a scenario (gag) I was still doing all the reading on the patho, pharm, treatment, etc because the info I needed on those subjects was not going to be in my friends two-page handout, no matter how high quality it was, that then meant when we discussed I had something meaningful to contribute. That's why CBL requires a high degree of self direction, you can't just do exactly what is required by the syllabus.
I don't know how exactly that would compare to your experience with PBL.

Pink Tulip · Mar 7, 2013

That would sound more accurate. I feel if I went this route I would just do the research myself anyways - I do terrible with notes. I need the little extra details to remember and put everything into context.

What part of the disorganized management was really disheartening for students? I know lots of University admins that are incompetent at scheduling, but does this affect your clinicals?

CodeteamB · Mar 7, 2013

Can't really speak to that, I vaguely remember some complaints to that effect from other students but I had no problems personally and can't remember any specifics.

jumper44 · Mar 20, 2013

is the uofa really as bad as people say it is? can anyone from the 4 year degree speak for it?

farrellb · Mar 26, 2013

Does anyone know if graduating from U of A or Grant Mac Nursing Program had limitations on studying elsewhere (as in not in Canada). When I graduate I would like to get a job somewhere else and just wondering if certain programs had better chances of finding a job in other places.

Fiona59 · Mar 26, 2013

Does anyone know if graduating from U of A or Grant Mac Nursing Program had limitations on studying elsewhere (as in not in Canada). When I graduate I would like to get a job somewhere else and just wondering if certain programs had better chances of finding a job in other places.

I don't know how many times we've told people this. Most places don't care where you went to school. They want to know that you passed the CRNE on the first try.