How in the world do you make it in CA?

USFguy · Aug 4, 2005

I don't have kids, and I don't mind renting.

My point exactly.

fergus51 · Aug 4, 2005

My point exactly.

Most of my coworkers are married with kids and they seem to survive pretty nicely too. I'm one of the few renters in the group, but that's not because I couldn't afford a house, it's because I move too often to make buying worthwhile.

USFguy · Aug 4, 2005

There is a reason why you can buy a hamburger at Mc Donald's for .99¢, quality. There is always a reason behind prices, supply and demand. It wouldn't be so expensive to live in CA if it was as awful as you make it sound. There is a reason why TX is cheap, and soon enough you will see it first hand.

Supply and demand? Yeah, that's part of it, but so is inflation and speculation. Just because something is priced high doesn't mean you are getting high quality. I'm sure the dress at Ross is just as good as the one in the department store, but it is the brand that people get sucked into. I'm no longer getting sucked into the "california" brand.

It is our opinion that it would be better for our children to grow and flourish mentally elsewhere. We want them to have their own opinions and we don't want them to HAVE to play football or be a cheerleader to benefit from the school's budget. We want a lot for our children, a lot of things we can't give them if they are surrounded by close minded people with egocentric belief systems.

Flourish mentally? You should no as a research coordinator that the schools here are ranked 48 in the nation. They won't have to play football or be a cheerleader to benefit from the school's budget because the school's have no money. And talk about close-minded people...you will encounter huge amounts of radical liberals here that believe all republicans are fascists and that support tax-funded sex change operations (LA and SF both do this) and S&M parades in the city of San Francisco (Folsom Sreet Fair). I am liberal, but to a point of sanity. And, oh yes, you have your christian right-wingers too in orange county and beyond that think we should live in a theocracy and elect Pat Robertson as president.

Since it is so cheap here in TX why didn't you move before you were in nursing school? We have nursing schools here too.

I wish I had, but my partner was in school at the time. Now I can and I will.

Most of this affordability stuff doesn't even apply to you anyhow since your hubby's a Doctor.

I have lived here my whole life and I know what I giving up, nothing more than what you are in texas.

ellescorpio · Aug 4, 2005

Have you researched TX nursing conditions? Are you aware of the patient to nurse ratios? Most of my clinical experiences have been with nurses who have 7 or more patients. Nurses are not treated kindly in TX. Have you researched the difference in TX hospitals vs. CA hospitals? Most CA hospitals are way more advanced than TX hospitals. In TX for the most part EVERYTHING is still done by hand. Charting, medications, room charges, just about everything is done with pencil and paper. There are some hospitals that are fortunate enough to have updated to having the patients information on the computer, but they are not in the majority. If you like the "Ross" brand of nursing job quality you'll find it here in TX. Well actually, it might be closer to the Wal-mart brand, but if that works for you then great. Like I said. We are all entitled to our opinions. Best of luck to you

Supply and demand? Yeah, that's part of it, but so is inflation and speculation. Just because something is priced high doesn't mean you are getting high quality. I'm sure the dress at Ross is just as good as the one in the department store, but it is the brand that people get sucked into. I'm no longer getting sucked into the "california" brand.
Flourish mentally? You should no as a research coordinator that the schools here are ranked 48 in the nation. They won't have to play football or be a cheerleader to benefit from the school's budget because the school's have no money. And talk about close-minded people...you will encounter huge amounts of radical liberals here that believe all republicans are fascists and that support tax-funded sex change operations (LA and SF both do this) and S&M parades in the city of San Francisco (Folsom Sreet Fair). I am liberal, but to a point of sanity. And, oh yes, you have your christian right-wingers too in orange county and beyond that think we should live in a theocracy and elect Pat Robertson as president.
I wish I had, but my partner was in school at the time. Now I can and I will.
Most of this affordability stuff doesn't even apply to you anyhow since your hubby's a Doctor.
I have lived here my whole life and I know what I giving up, nothing more than what you are in texas.

CANurse4Life · Aug 8, 2005

Hello everyone, a newbie here. I am a new grad RN , went through the Excelsior College program. I was a LPN w/ over 4 yrs of clinical experience in hospital settings. I passed the NCLEX-RN here in CA 1st time go stopped at 75 questions in 45 min. My problem here in LA is that UCLA in westwood and Cedars Sinai won't accept me. Their reason was they don't hire Excelsior college new grad. I consider myself to be a very conscientous , hard working nurse, have lots to offer, and always strive for the best. I was very disturbed to hear the rejection from the two hospitals because I am an EC student. It's very ironic to see the two hospitals hired new grad RN from oversea, who can barely speak the language and also those hospitals hired nurses from schools which have a low passing NCLEX-RN score (just go to California stateboard RN site and do a search for pass rate). Anyhow I am currently working at another hospital in the ICU. CA nursing shortages is just a myth. These hospitals' administrators(i.e. Human Resource personnel) just put out the myth so they can have their job secured. I am asking to see how many new nurses here who have filled out online/on site applications and never hear from the hospitals again. I've tried to call those hospitals back with no one available to talk to me. They won't even answer my messages. The last time I checked, UCLA NCLEX-RN passing is way below the national average. Nurses from EC scored higher the UCLA nurses. The reason I went to EC because I have a full time job and also I've wasted over a year to be put on a waiting to get into the stupid nursing program. I've seen a BSN RN who does not know what to do on the job. I've seen that person administered PO digoxin to a pt with a 40s HR and c/o vision disturbances. How come a BSN RN grad does not know to hold dig and to check dig level on the pt especially in the elderly pt. Even any LPN/LVN knows that. i believe the ec motto, "what you know is more important than where or how you learned it" CA RN board needs to wake up and accept the new way of learning.

Sheri257 · Aug 9, 2005

Hello everyone, a newbie here. I am a new grad RN , went through the Excelsior College program. I was a LPN w/ over 4 yrs of clinical experience in hospital settings. I passed the NCLEX-RN here in CA 1st time go stopped at 75 questions in 45 min. My problem here in LA is that UCLA in westwood and Cedars Sinai won't accept me. Their reason was they don't hire Excelsior college new grad. I consider myself to be a very conscientous , hard working nurse, have lots to offer, and always strive for the best. I was very disturbed to hear the rejection from the two hospitals because I am an EC student. It's very ironic to see the two hospitals hired new grad RN from oversea, who can barely speak the language and also those hospitals hired nurses from schools which have a low passing NCLEX-RN score (just go to California stateboard RN site and do a search for pass rate).
I've seen a BSN RN who does not know what to do on the job. I've seen that person administered PO digoxin to a pt with a 40s HR and c/o vision disturbances. How come a BSN RN grad does not know to hold dig and to check dig level on the pt especially in the elderly pt. Even any LPN/LVN knows that. i believe the ec motto, "what you know is more important than where or how you learned it" CA RN board needs to wake up and accept the new way of learning.

Not sure why you posted on this thread? It's off topic. Nevertheless...

I understand your frustration but, if you want to blame somebody blame EC. Unfortunately you got burned by your own school. When EC started letting MA's and all kinds of people without nursing experience become RN's, the school's reputation went downhill in California. They should have limited entry to acute care LVN's like yourself, but they didn't. If they had, none of this probably would have happened. When EC went down, so did the job prospects for all of their grads, LVN's or not. It's unfair for LVN's, but the true blame lies with EC ... they're the ones who ruined the school's reputation for you and everybody else. That's not the state's fault. The state was just doing their job.

:coollook:

Sheri257 · Aug 9, 2005

I've lived in Texas and I've lived in California. Obviously, I prefer California.

I moved out to the boonies to find an affordable house in California. Not ideal, but it works. And yes the traffic and the smog is horrible. But I also love never having to leave the state for vacation because I still haven't run out of beautiful places to visit.

And, I absolutely LOVE our ratio law. You couldn't pay me to move back to Texas with no unions and no worker protections. Been there, done that.

Call me liberal ... whatever ... but Texas sucks. And, if you read this board, you'll notice A LOT of miserable nurses in Texas because they're always complaining about high ratios, mandatory overtime, etc. ... things we don't have to worry about here because there's lots of laws and regulations that protect us.

:coollook:

Tony35NYC · Aug 9, 2005

USFguy,

I hear what you're saying about real estate in California. Its been a long time since I've lived in Cali and I don't know exactly what its like nowadays but property values have risen well past outrageous in most parts of the country. Where I am in New York is perhaps even worse. Our townhome is in a nice area just outside NYC, and its now worth more than double what we paid for it several years ago. We definitely could not afford to buy this place now, not even with our combined income. A tiny studio (about 700 sq ft) in Manhattan now goes for over $500,000, and a 1-bedroom condo (just a hundred or so more sq ft) cost almost $700,000. If you're a renter, you'd be hard-pressed to find a decent 2 bedroom in Manhattan for $1275. Nobody even thinks about buying property in or near Manhattan anyway, but at least you can still buy a house with $700,000 in Cali. Still, life in NYC has a unique energy that most people here wouldn't trade for anything in the world and a lot more people are moving here, despite the high cost of living, crime, horrible public schools, and the crowding. I can understand why some people would feel the same way about California---its a beautiful state, too. Nursing salaries aren't bad in NYC, but most people are renters and housing takes a HUGE bite out of your paycheck here, just like in Cali. I love the city. Great place to be if you're unattached, but a tough place to raise kids and this is the reason I want to get out.

We were planning on moving to FL, but a lot of people are also moving to Florida and FL real estate and cost of living are rising too. I'd like to get a bigger place so my kids have a bit more space, and like you I'm also doing some research into making a move to an area that's a bit more affordable yet conducive to family life. I've already been down to FL a few times to check out different areas. Likewise, I recommend that you go over to TX and check things out on a sort of mini vacation before you move there. I've heard some not so positive things about nursing in certain parts of TX that corroborate what Lizz mentioned in the post preceding this one. Real estate is cheaper there (which is a good thing), but its also important to talk to people there and eventually go there and see for yourself if its what you're really looking for. Whatever you decide, I hope it works out well for you.

T.

USFguy · Aug 9, 2005

USFguy,
I hear what you're saying about real estate in California. Its been a long time since I've lived in Cali and I don't know exactly what its like nowadays but property values have risen well past outrageous in most parts of the country. Where I am in New York is perhaps even worse. Our townhome is in a nice area just outside NYC, and its now worth more than double what we paid for it several years ago. We definitely could not afford to buy this place now, not even with our combined income. A tiny studio (about 700 sq ft) in Manhattan now goes for over $500,000, and a 1-bedroom condo (just a hundred or so more sq ft) cost almost $700,000. If you're a renter, you'd be hard-pressed to find a decent 2 bedroom in Manhattan for $1275. Nobody even thinks about buying property in or near Manhattan anyway, but at least you can still buy a house with $700,000 in Cali. Still, life in NYC has a unique energy that most people here wouldn't trade for anything in the world and a lot more people are moving here, despite the high cost of living, crime, horrible public schools, and the crowding. I can understand why some people would feel the same way about California---its a beautiful state, too. Nursing salaries aren't bad in NYC, but most people are renters and housing takes a HUGE bite out of your paycheck here, just like in Cali. I love the city. Great place to be if you're unattached, but a tough place to raise kids and this is the reason I want to get out.
We were planning on moving to FL, but a lot of people are also moving to Florida and FL real estate and cost of living are rising too. I'd like to get a bigger place so my kids have a bit more space, and like you I'm also doing some research into making a move to an area that's a bit more affordable yet conducive to family life. I've already been down to FL a few times to check out different areas. Likewise, I recommend that you go over to TX and check things out on a sort of mini vacation before you move there. I've heard some not so positive things about nursing in certain parts of TX that corroborate what Lizz mentioned in the post preceding this one. Real estate is cheaper there (which is a good thing), but its also important to talk to people there and eventually go there and see for yourself if its what you're really looking for. Whatever you decide, I hope it works out well for you.
T.

Thanks for the advice.

I will definitely visit a few times before I decide on the move to houston. I am also considering other locales such as ohio, florida, arizona, and oregon. Houston is coming out winner in terms of affordability, but like you said, it's a loser in other areas, such as nursing practice laws when compared to places like "california."

I do read the texas nurses board and see their complaints. I correspond with a couple of RNs from houston aswell. There are bad work environments in texas as there are good. That's why we have "Magnet-certified" healthcare institutions so us nurses can find nurse-friendly medical facilities (there are more than a few in houston, tx). Either way, it is really a trade off that I am ready to endure if it means securing a nice retirement and home for my family down the line.

I love california as I was born and raised here. It is beautiful in many respects and the "let-live" attitude is hard to match anywhere else, but it no longer offers me the opportunities I hoped it would.

Good luck to you on your move.

Sheri257 · Aug 9, 2005

Either way, it is really a trade off that I am ready to endure if it means securing a nice retirement and home for my family down the line.

I honestly don't know how you figure you'll do better either way. And I'm not saying that just because I live in California. What you really have to figure is not only cost of living but what the wages are and what the wage growth prospects are in the future too. Especially if you're planning for retirement.

Granted, if you pay $1 million for a box in San Francisco, then yeah ... you can go broke doing that. But California is a big state and, if you don't have to live in San Francisco or a similar costly area (which, obviously, you don't since you're willing to move to Texas) then there are other options.

What we did was pick a semi-rural but fast growing area where we could buy a house for cheap ($150,000). In the last two years the house has doubled in value and two new hospitals are under construction in addition to the three already in the area. RN wages in the area have already jumped by $10 an hour because of the growth in the area and, because of the ratio law.

Which raises another issue: With the ratio law, wages are bound to grow even further in California since the law automatically doubled the demand for RN's. The state estimates the shortage will increase from 40,000 to 100,000 nurses in just five years. That's going to be very good for California RN wages. But, without a ratio law, that probably won't happen in Texas.

Texas is a non-union state and Department of Labor Stastics show that wages in non-union states are always lower. Even though only 20 percent of California RN's are union, their higher wages benefit everyone since other hospitals have to pay the same to compete. That certainly happened when one hospital in my area went union. You don't have those kinds of wage increase incentives in Texas.

There's no guarantee you'll even be paid overtime in Texas either. Last year Bush pushed through a regulation that listed RN's as salaried employees exempt from overtime. That doesn't matter much in California because our strong overtime laws override the regulation but, Texas has no overtime laws. Some employers could take advantage and not pay you overtime at all.

So ... I'm just wondering. How do you know for sure that you'll actually do better in Texas? Financially ... that is. Seems like it would be very difficult to calculate ... especially since you don't know the true cost of living anywhere ... and your true net income ... until you actually live and work there.

:coollook:

USFguy · Aug 10, 2005

I honestly don't know how you figure you'll do better either way. And I'm not saying that just because I live in California. What you really have to figure is not only cost of living but what the wages are and what the wage growth prospects are in the future too. Especially if you're planning for retirement.
Granted, if you pay $1 million for a box in San Francisco, then yeah ... you can go broke doing that. But California is a big state and, if you don't have to live in San Francisco or a similar costly area (which, obviously, you don't since you're willing to move to Texas) then there are other options.
What we did was pick a semi-rural but fast growing area where we could buy a house for cheap ($150,000). In the last two years the house has doubled in value and two new hospitals are under construction in addition to the three already in the area. RN wages in the area have already jumped by $10 an hour because of the growth in the area and, because of the ratio law.
Which raises another issue: With the ratio law, wages are bound to grow even further in California since the law automatically doubled the demand for RN's. The state estimates the shortage will increase from 40,000 to 100,000 nurses in just five years. That's going to be very good for California RN wages. But, without a ratio law, that probably won't happen in Texas.
Texas is a non-union state and Department of Labor Stastics show that wages in non-union states are always lower. Even though only 20 percent of California RN's are union, their higher wages benefit everyone since other hospitals have to pay the same to compete. That certainly happened when one hospital in my area went union. You don't have those kinds of wage increase incentives in Texas.
There's no guarantee you'll even be paid overtime in Texas either. Last year Bush pushed through a regulation that listed RN's as salaried employees exempt from overtime. That doesn't matter much in California because our strong overtime laws override the regulation but, Texas has no overtime laws. Some employers could take advantage and not pay you overtime at all.
So ... I'm just wondering. How do you know for sure that you'll actually do better in Texas? Financially ... that is. Seems like it would be very difficult to calculate ... especially since you don't know the true cost of living anywhere ... and your true net income ... until you actually live and work there.

All true. Thanks everyone for weighing in. I really do have to think this thing through more. Maybe Texas is not the best thing to jump into. Perhaps I'd be better off in a semi-rural area like you. My mother has suggested that too since the home prices will almost certainly rise higher here in CA than TX. But TX is not my only option. I could stay here in CA like you suggest and live out in a semi-rural area or I could also look at other states. Ohio has come to interest and so has Florida and Arizona. But all of those places don't have as much job cushioning as CA. Maybe I am struggling with the "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. I don't know. I guess I need to keep researching. You brought up some really important factors to consider. Thanks.

:uhoh21:

BladderCancerSxMgt · Aug 10, 2005

Housing unaffordable, gas is heading that way

S.F leads list of most-expensive regions for buyers and renters - Kelly Zito, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, August 10, 2005

A new national study underlines a hard fact San Franciscans wake up to every day: The city ranks as one of the least-affordable housing markets in the country, as price appreciation far outstrips pay raises for nurses, janitors and other moderate- and low-income earners. . . .

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/08/10/BUGS8E5DIQ1.DTL