Rethinking FNP- perhaps BSN to PhD?

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 24, 2008

How do you feel about teaching? If you are to have an academic career, it will probably involve teaching as well as research -- though that is not 100% necessary. While most research jobs include teaching, there are a few that do not.

I think you already know most of what I might say. In academic careers, the cost is high, the hours are long, and the pay is low. That's generally the case (with a few exceptions of course.) You have to decide on your priorities and the level of sacrifice you are prepared to make to achieve your goals.

Have you considered the "old-fashioned" route? -- of doing it a step at a time? The educational timetable is longer, but the financial sacrifices are less along the way. Can you get an MSN (paid for in part at least by your current employer) and seek an entry-level faculty job ... or a job in staff development? Most staff development jobs have nice hours and pay better than entry-level faculty jobs. Then you start your PhD program part time as well. You can also qualify for some research jobs with an MSN.

The traditional path and timetable for an academic career in nursing is not as fast nor as fashionable today, but it was established for legitimate reasons. It often works well for people who can't afford to quit their jobs to go to school full time -- and who would like to take some time off now and then to have a family.

I'm not saying it is right for you -- just trying to point out that there are a variety of routes that you should be exploring as you make your decision. Explore them all before deciding on one.

HealthyRN · Feb 25, 2008

I see a lot of similarities in our situations so I would like to share my story with you. I was also recruited heavily for a BSN to PhD program right out of my undergraduate program. Even though a PhD was always my goal, I wasn't sure if I really wanted it to be in nursing and I knew that I wanted to become an FNP first, so I decided to take a year off to gain some clinical experience. By the end of that year, I had discovered that acute care nursing is not for me, but I went ahead and started the FNP program, thinking that I would be a lot happier in a role with more autonomy (and better working conditions).

After a semester, I realized that I was not thrilled about what I was learning in the program. I got all As and enjoyed learning the science behind the pathophysiology, but I didn't like applying the information to clinical situations. I finally had to admit that direct patient care, of any kind, is just not my niche. I decided to drop out of the FNP program and I transferred into a health policy program. I am now happier than I have ever been with what I am studying. I love going to class and I look forward to reading the assignments. I've already decided that I am definitely staying for a PhD, but I've decided to finish the master's first. Having the master's degree will allow me to move into a more interesting position while I finish working on the PhD. If you look into PhD programs, many are becoming more flexible than they used to be. It may be possible to work while completing a PhD program, if you aren't worried about finishing quickly. The research that I'm working on for the master's will be applicable to the research I want to do for the PhD, so that will cut down on the time.

It's not necessary to do a master's degree first, but it would allow you time to decide if it is the route that you want to take. If I hadn't ended up in this program, I would never have known the passion I have for health policy!

By the way, since you have clinical nursing experience, you should be exploring other areas away from the bedside if you really don't enjoy it. I am so much happier now that I have a non-clinical role. Good luck and let me know what you decide!

ICRN2008, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2008

Thanks for your reply llg. I was actually hoping that you would be one of the people to respond to my thread. What you are saying makes perfect sense. However, maybe I should be more specific about the reasons that I am considering going straight into a PhD program. First, I am a little bit older and more mature than most BSN graduates. I spent over four years in a previous career before coming to nursing. I also spent three years during my first undergraduate degree working in research labs, leading to a co-authorship of a poster presented at ASH. This leads me to believe that I am prepared for the rigors of a doctoral program.

I also enjoy teaching; I had the opportunity to lead a lab session last year for the undergraduate physiology students, and it was great! I can't remember the last time I enjoyed something as much, and I feel that the students really came away from the session having learned something. The advanced practice nurse on my unit routinely seeks me out for student shadowing experiences on my unit and even has me precepting a nurse intern because I have shown an interest in (and I hope an aptitude for) teaching.

The reasons I hesitate to complete a master's degree are twofold. First, only twelve credits of the master's degree count towards the PhD program at my institution, and this seems to be a common practice at many universities. Second, my interest in getting advanced practice preparation along with my master's program has really waned in the past six months.

It seems like the best solution at this time would be to find a generic master's program that focuses on research and teaching without the advanced practice preparation. Finding a program whose credits count maximally towards a doctoral program would be ideal. This would allow me to seek positions such as nursing instructor, research nurse or infection control practitioner, all of which interest me immensely. The problem is that I don't know whether such a program exists, and I'm not in a position to move at this time because of my husband's job.

Thanks again for your feedback :)

ICRN2008, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2008

I see a lot of similarities in our situations so I would like to share my story with you. I was also recruited heavily for a BSN to PhD program right out of my undergraduate program. Even though a PhD was always my goal, I wasn't sure if I really wanted it to be in nursing and I knew that I wanted to become an FNP first, so I decided to take a year off to gain some clinical experience. By the end of that year, I had discovered that acute care nursing is not for me, but I went ahead and started the FNP program, thinking that I would be a lot happier in a role with more autonomy (and better working conditions).
After a semester, I realized that I was not thrilled about what I was learning in the program. I got all As and enjoyed learning the science behind the pathophysiology, but I didn't like applying the information to clinical situations. I finally had to admit that direct patient care, of any kind, is just not my niche. I decided to drop out of the FNP program and I transferred into a health policy program. I am now happier than I have ever been with what I am studying. I love going to class and I look forward to reading the assignments. I've already decided that I am definitely staying for a PhD, but I've decided to finish the master's first. Having the master's degree will allow me to move into a more interesting position while I finish working on the PhD. If you look into PhD programs, many are becoming more flexible than they used to be. It may be possible to work while completing a PhD program, if you aren't worried about finishing quickly. The research that I'm working on for the master's will be applicable to the research I want to do for the PhD, so that will cut down on the time.
It's not necessary to do a master's degree first, but it would allow you time to decide if it is the route that you want to take. If I hadn't ended up in this program, I would never have known the passion I have for health policy!
By the way, since you have clinical nursing experience, you should be exploring other areas away from the bedside if you really don't enjoy it. I am so much happier now that I have a non-clinical role. Good luck and let me know what you decide!

Thank you for your response! I am also not sure if I would like to complete my PhD in nursing- it seems to be the natural progression. I also have a strong interest in epidemiology, pathology and microbiology. Even before I went back to school for nursing, I thought about pursuing public health or pathology as a career.

As an aside, I have a hard time admitting to myself that direct patient care, at least in the inpatient setting, is not my cup of tea. I went back to school for nursing specifically because I wanted to do patient care. To admit now that I don't enjoy it is like admitting that going back to school for nursing was a waste of time and money. As my mother says, though, no education is ever a waste.

It seems that it would be wise for me to expand my search beyond nursing to other graduate programs that night interest me. Thank you very much for your input :)

Joe NightingMale, MSN, RN · Feb 26, 2008

I'm a bit curious---where do you see yourself teaching, in a classroom with students or in a hospital with nurses?

I'm similar--my first degree was in molecular biology and I spent years in the labs. I'm now in an generic MSN program, and when I get out I hope to do some research or administration, and maybe some teaching.

I spoke to a retired nursing professor, who said that if I was interested in a traditional academic career then I'd want to look at the PhD. However, she said if I was more interested in a clinical setting...i.e. teaching other nurses...then maybe the new DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice) degree might be of more interest. Also, she said I should look at the newly developed CNL (Clinical Nursing Leader) certification. You may be able to do a lot just at the master's level.

You could look at degrees outside of nursing, certainly. But remember that nursing is a very diverse field, and that there may be many positions that you haven't considered that might be more to your liking.

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 26, 2008

Great thread. Thanks for starting it.

I think that basically, we are also saying similar things. There are lots of choices -- and no one choice is best for everyone.

The OP seems committed to staying where she currently lives. That will limit her choices to what is available locally (unless she wants to do something online.

My advice is to take a little time, research all your options, discuss it with your significant others -- then go with what feels right for you.

For those of you who don't know ... I went the traditional route because that was all that was available for my generation. BSN at 22, MSN at 26, PhD at 41. I have spent most of my career doing Staff Development in hospitals. That's where my current job is, but I also teach a couple of classes at a local university. It DOES get a lonely sometimes, being doctorally prepared in a setting in which no one else is -- but for some of us, that's what life brings.

HealthyRN · Feb 26, 2008

Thanks for sharing your perspective, Llg. Isn't it also true that more hospitals are hiring doctorally-prepared nurses? At the large medical centers, I've noticed that PhD nurses are in leadership roles, such as Chief of Nursing Services or director of nursing research. It sounds like the OP is more interested in an academic career, but I just want people to know that there are other roles for doctorally-prepared nurses.

BSNDec06- I also had a very hard time admitting that direct patient care is not my niche. Part of the problem is that there is not much opportunity during undergraduate programs to explore roles outside of the hospital. I was left with the impression that a "real" nurse works at the bedside. What I've come to realize is that there are so many different ways to be a nurse and you don't have to be at the bedside to contribute to patient care. Even though my position now does not even require a nursing degree, I still utilize my nursing knowledge everyday and I am still a nurse. Although I'm not providing direct patient care, I'm an advocate and a resource to patients. Your nursing education will never be wasted.

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 27, 2008

Thanks for sharing your perspective, Llg. Isn't it also true that more hospitals are hiring doctorally-prepared nurses? At the large medical centers, I've noticed that PhD nurses are in leadership roles, such as Chief of Nursing Services or director of nursing research. It sounds like the OP is more interested in an academic career, but I just want people to know that there are other roles for doctorally-prepared nurses.
.

Yes, it is becoming more common for hospitals to hire doctorally prepared nurses. In that respect, I hope that "pioneers" like me are preparing the way for many more to come.

ICRN2008, BSN, RN · Feb 27, 2008

Thank you all for your perspectives. I will spend some time in the next few month shadowing NPs, talking to professors and advisers at school and speaking to former classmates and TAs who are currently enrolled in graduate programs.

After much consideration, I have decided that llg is correct taking things one step at a time can be a wise move. I spent a lot of time yesterday and the day before talking to my husband and my mom. My husband is in favor of me doing whatever I feel will make me happy in my career. My mother reminds me (as another poster stated) that no education is ever wasted. Even if I decide not to go for a doctoral degree now does not mean that I cannot do so in the future. I also ran into one of my former clinical instructors yesterday. She is an NP, but after a few years of practice she decided that she prefers teaching undergraduates. There is a demand for master's prepared nurses, so working on that level for a few years and finding my niche before continuing on to a doctorate might be a prudent move given my lack of experience in the field of nursing.

Thanks again to everyone :)

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 27, 2008

Good luck to you, BSNDec06, on whatever path you decide to take.

jjjoy, LPN · Mar 2, 2008

I just wanted to chime in as another who realized that clinical nursing wasn't my 'cup of tea.' I do work in the health field, and I'm definitely using my nursing education. Still, I'm reluctant to say I'm a nurse. Well, I am a nurse, technically. I keep my license active, but I don't work specifically as a nurse. I feel like it's more correct to say "I have a degree in nursing." Kinda like folks who have a degree in history or economics but are not historians or economists. I often ponder how to conceptualize nursing (since it covers acute care to public health to nurse practitioners) and I've incredibly mixed feeling about nursing education (heck, the nursing field as a whole has mixed feelings about nursing education!!). Sometimes, I think I'd like to get involved in education and policy... or at least study it more formally... but for now, I've got a job working with clinical data management that I really enjoy!

Anyway, just wanted to share that I relate to some of what has been shared in this thread. :cheers: